The discussion centers on the concept and benefits of time-restricted eating (TRE), a form of intermittent fasting. The speaker shares that initial skepticism about TRE's effectiveness in weight loss has adjusted with newer data indicating that calorie intake naturally decreases during time-restricted eating. However, without calorie restriction, the impact on weight loss might not be significant. The discussion moves to explore the circadian component of TRE among other physiological effects, noting that transient markers like fasting glucose and insulin show some impact in studies, though the comprehensive benefits still require further investigation.

Additional aspects of TRE, such as autophagy and its implications for longevity, are also discussed. autophagy is noted to increase with TRE, yet its true net effect needs study. Moreover, comparisons with extreme fasting regimens, like alternate-day fasting, are made to ponder their impact on autophagy against regular calorie intake control. The dialogue navigates through research findings on calorie restriction effects, suggesting rodents may not be the best longevity model, and contrasts between animal and human growth patterns are highlighted alongside findings from primate studies.

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Key Vocabularies and Common Phrases:

1. cardiometabolic [ˌkɑrdiˌoʊˌmetəˈbɒlɪk] - (adj.) - Relating to the combined effects on the heart and metabolism. - Synonyms: (metabolic-cardiac, cardiac-metabolic)

I mean there's again, you're getting into the potential cardiometabolic effects.

2. adherent [ədˈhɪrənt] - (adj.) - Staying attached or dedicated to something, such as a set of rules or belief system. - Synonyms: (faithful, dedicated, devoted)

Okay, but what happens if somebody is like not being adherent to that because they get hungry at night?

3. autophagy [ɔːˈtɒfədʒi] - (noun) - The process by which cells break down and recycle their own components. - Synonyms: (cellular recycling, self-digestion)

And so the other thing that gets brought up a lot is kind of, you know, autophagy and then longevity.

4. lysosomal [ˌlaɪsəˈsoʊməl] - (adj.) - Relating to lysosomes, which are organelles in cells responsible for breaking down waste materials and cellular debris. - Synonyms: (cell-cleansing, organelle-related)

I mean, we're talking about lysosomal protein degradation essentially.

5. degradation [ˌdɛɡrəˈdeɪʃən] - (noun) - The process whereby something is worn down, deteriorated, or broken down. - Synonyms: (deterioration, breakdown, decomposition)

I mean, we're talking about lysosomal protein degradation essentially.

6. mortality [mɔːrˈtælɪti] - (noun) - The state or condition of being subject to death; death rate. - Synonyms: (death rate, fatality, lethality)

But like 15, 20% body fat, if you're a male, appears to be, you know, a very protective effect for mortality compared to being, you know, 30, 40% body fat.

7. hypertensive [ˌhaɪpərˈtɛnsɪv] - (adj.) - Having abnormally high blood pressure. - Synonyms: (high blood pressure, blood pressure raised)

It was like size effects that you get with anti hypertensive treatment drugs, which was very interesting.

8. equating [ɪˈkwetɪŋ] - (verb) - Considering as equivalent or equal. - Synonyms: (balancing, matching, leveling)

So that you're equating that fasting period before those things because again, I think, you know, blood pressure responds relatively acutely to a lot of different things.

9. transient [ˈtrænziənt] - (adj.) - Lasting only for a short period of time. - Synonyms: (temporary, brief, fleeting)

You know, you do in some studies, I actually posted about this, I think yesterday you do in some studies see some of the more transient markers have an effect with like, especially like early time restricted eating versus like continuous feeding

10. circadian [sərˈkeɪdiən] - (adj.) - Relating to the physical, mental, and behavioral changes following a roughly 24-hour cycle, responding primarily to light and darkness in an organism's environment. - Synonyms: (biological rhythm, biological clock, daily cycle)

But other effects of time restricted eating, do you think, you know there is a circadian component to time restricted eating? Right? There is a circadian component

Does Time-Restricted Eating Have Benefits Independent of Calorie Restriction?

Okay, we're running out of time. I do. There's another topic I want to cover. I also want to ask you about personal routine. But the topic is something that you and I have probably butted heads with a little bit, at least on social media in the past years ago. I don't know that it's been recent. And that has to do with time restricted eating and a form of intermittent fasting. So my question to you is.

Well, first of all, I wanna say this. Over the years my view of certain benefits of what I think of time restricted eating has changed as more data has come in. And specifically referring to the fact that there are studies out there that have calculated if people are just in their free living environment and they're naturally doing time restricted eating and they actually are doing it, they do decrease their calorie intake. Correct. Between 200 to 500, depending on how short of a time when they're eating their food. And so if you don't consider the calories that they are restricting, the weight loss benefits seem to go away when you then consider the calories. So in other words, if they aren't restricting calories, the time restricted effect on weight loss is, seems to go away.

That's correct. Now. So I didn't always believe that, but as more data came out I now say, okay, well this seems to be real for sure. There are a lot of types of time restricted eating. There's like six hour window, you're eating in eight hour window, there's even 10 hours which I don't think you're going to get a big difference if you're comparing 10 to 12. But other effects of time restricted eating, do you think, you know there is a circadian component to time restricted eating? Right? There is a circadian component. You are eating, you know, humans or diurnal creatures, we're eating within our time window when our circadian rhythm is more metabolically inclined to process glucose and fatty acids and everything.

Right. Do you think there is a possibility of a benefit of time restricted eating, like independent of calories? I think there's a possibility. But I think based on the research I've seen, if it does exist, it's probably pretty small. You know, you do in some studies, I actually posted about this, I think yesterday you do in some studies see some of the more transient markers have an effect with like, especially like early time restricted eating versus like continuous feeding. But you don't, at least to my knowledge I haven't really seen one that like shows a difference in like HbA1c or Homa IR, those sorts of things. What you tend to see is like fasting blood glucose, fasting insulin, maybe a little bit lower in the early time restricted eating, which I think it's possible. It's possible.

That is a real effect. It is. I think it's also possible that, okay, well if they're early time restricted eating and they finish eating at like 1pm and they're not eating until you know, 8am the next day when they're doing a blood draw, whereas the person who is just regular eating eats right before bed, gets a blood draw the next day. I think it's possible that that might explain that small difference. Now I could be wrong and so there could be a small extra benefit to it.

Blood pressure, have you seen the blood pressure one? I haven't seen the blood pressure. That's the six hour. I think it was Verde from Chicago. Blood pressure was. It was that again calories were equated so there was no weight loss. There was the fasting blood glucose, but the blood pressure was. That was the thing that was most interesting to me because it was like size effects that you get with anti hypertensive treatment drugs, which was very interesting.

And so that's something. I mean there's again, you're getting into the potential cardiometabolic effects. There needs to be more research. But I just wanted to see if you are. What your stance is. And I think again that would be one where I'm like, I'd like to see how the timing of the measurement affects it. Right? So I would like to see.

What I would like to see is somebody do a study just like that. But when they do their final blood draw and, and blood pressure, they do the same length fasted from the day before, right. So that you're equating that fasting period before those things because again, I think, you know, blood pressure responds relatively acutely to a lot of different things. Stress, you know, if you just ate, you'll have a higher blood pressure due to solutes in your blood. So, you know, I think it's possible and I hold open that possibility.

I think what I tell people is like practically it's probably very little difference. And so I look at practically, is this something that you can implement in your life and make a lifestyle? And if the answer is yes, by all means, it's a great tool, right? Like it's a great tool. It's one of your only levers. The levers you have are dietary restriction, like low carb Low fat, plant based, whatever, calorie tracking restriction, right? Where you're tracking stuff or time restriction, those are your three levers you can really pull in terms of if you want to put things into buckets. Right. And you can combine them if you want to, but whatever gets you consistent, that is the biggest thing.

And so for some people, they love time restricted eating. You know, I've had people say like, hey, I eat this eight hour window, six hour window, I don't feel hungry, I'm good. And so I think where people, the messaging can get confusing again. It's like people say, well, there's some evidence that early time restricted eating is better. Okay, but what happens if somebody is like not being adherent to that because they get hungry at night and then they end up binging at night because they're, well, I already screwed up my feeding window, might as well just have whatever I want.

Right. And so I think the messaging, it's important to understand why these things work. Right. And so we would both agree, okay, if there's a benefit, it's probably small. And the biggest lever is making sure you're just being consistently, you know, controlling those that calorie intake. And so the benefit of time restricted eating is for many people, they don't have to track and they'll limit their calories that way. But I have met people who they use time restricted eating is basically an excuse to binge eat during their feeding window. And for them that's not going to work very well.

Right. And so the other thing that gets brought up a lot is kind of, you know, autophagy and then longevity. And so what I'll say is, yes, time restricted eating raises autophagy, but so does calorie restriction and so does exercise. Yeah, all true. And also with autophagy, I think again, this is where it's like using terms as blanket, good, bad. I mean, autophagy is elevated in some cancers, it's elevated in some wasted diseases.

I mean, we're talking about lysosomal protein degradation essentially. And so I just try to remind people, like, thinking about stuff in black and white is probably not the way you want to do it right now. I think the issue with trying to understand something like autophagy is really, you'd have to almost do studies looking at autophagy where you're equating like weekly calories. Like if you want to get in the more extreme versions of fasting and then looking, okay, what is the overall net effect? Because, all right, let's say you're Doing alternate day fasting. Right. Like a more extreme version of fasting.

Absolutely. I have no doubt that on your day of fasting your autophagy is going up. But then if we are equating calories, Right. You're going to be eating much more on your feeding day than a person who's just eating the same amount of calories every single day is if we're equating apples to apples. Right. And so when you're eating more, that tends to reduce autophagy. And so what's the overall net effect? Right. I don't know. I don't know the answer. But I would suspect based on other things I've seen, that it's probably going to be really no difference, that it is a tool to control calories.

And that was what affects autophagy on longevity. I mean, really, there's some animal studies, there's some in vitro stuff as well, I think, and even the calorie restriction stuff. I think I have a kind of a unique take on this because I've done animal research, so there's nothing I'm aware. I mean, there's a couple rodent studies looking at time restricted eating where they suggested a longevity benefit. I think rodent model is probably a poor model for longevity because rodents grow throughout the course of their life. You know, humans kind of peak at like around 20 and then they kind of stay level, I mean, obesity notwithstanding, and then they start to decline later in life. Very different growth curve from rodents. Now rodents are good models for other things like protein metabolism, decent model for glucose metabolism. But for longevity, I'm not convinced.

Now if we look at the monkey study, the primate studies, we see the calorie restriction effects on primates, right? And so I think. But I'm not even convinced it's calorie restriction. And here's why, because I know how these studies are done. Because when you're looking at lab animals, you just look at what they normally eat and then you cut 20, 30% out and you go, that's calorie restriction. But I pulled up these studies and looked at the, and looked at the charts of these animals. Weights they don't like, keep dropping. There's like maybe a little drop and then it just kind of plateaus, right? Like they don't really lose much weight, if at all. Animals tend to overeat in captivity.

And when you look at the odds ratios of what obesity does for longevity, what I think is happening and what I think you're seeing is these animals just don't become obese, and they don't gain excess amounts of body fat. And so calorie restriction, it's probably more, probably better put as it's just like preventing excess body fat. Right. Because, I mean, if you take that at face value, I mean, if you're truly in a calorie deficit, you're entirely. You'll die eventually. You'll die. Right. So I think a lot of this is literally can be boiled down to just don't become obese, don't have excess body fat, and you don't have to be super lean either. Like, actually, the mortality data suggests if you're super lean, that's probably not good either.

I. There's some aspects of that that I tend to think that people who are very lean are probably extreme in other ways, and those aspects of their life probably contribute to the mortality rate. But like 15, 20% body fat, if you're a male, appears to be, you know, a very protective effect for mortality compared to being, you know, 30, 40% body fat. And so, again, I am very convinced that excess body fat is really bad for metabolic health, cardiovascular disease, cancer and mortality. But how you get to a normal body weight or lean body weight, I think is way less important than actually just getting there.

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