The video features a discussion led by Marty, a product strategist at Salesforce Marketing Cloud, on the Convergence of marketing and advertising through the use of technologies like Salesforce's Data Cloud. Marty reflects on past predictions about the siloed nature of Ad Tech and MarTech, highlighting how advancements such as customer data platforms (CDPs) have transformed data management by enabling businesses to provide tailored advertising and marketing solutions effectively. The talk also examines the evolution of consumer data usage and privacy, drawing parallels from the history of data processing dating back to 1962 and touching upon modern strategies involving first-party data.

The talk delves into the implications of digital cookies, consumer privacy concerns, and changes in consumer behavior regarding personalized experiences. Marty recounts the historical development of cookies and their impact on digital advertising, as well as the societal shift towards privacy awareness, as evidenced by events like Mark Zuckerberg's testimony in Congress. The discussion also brings attention to Apple's role in redefining online privacy standards and the technical adaptations companies are making to navigate these privacy-focused landscapes.

Main takeaways from the video:

Please remember to turn on the CC button to view the subtitles.

Key Vocabularies and Common Phrases:

1. Convergence [kənˈvɜːrdʒəns] - (n.) - The process or state of converging; when different ideas, groups, or technologies come together.

And I argue that ad tech and Martech would never converge.

2. Pseudonymous [suˈdɒnɪməs] - (adj.) - Relating to a fictitious or fake name, often used to protect identity.

Somewhat targetable, a little bit more vague, but it tends to be Pseudonymous.

3. Enabler [ɪˈneɪblər] - (n.) - A person or thing that makes something possible.

The magic cookie, long time Enabler of ad tech, dies at 30.

4. Deprecate [ˈdɛprəˌkeɪt] - (v.) - To express disapproval of or to phase out something.

And they became the neighborhood watch for the World Wide Web. They appointed themselves that, and then they started to Deprecate the cookie.

5. Harmonize [ˈhɑːrməˌnaɪz] - (v.) - To bring into balance or accord; to make consistent or compatible.

They needed to ingest that, Harmonize it, make it available to their analytics team.

6. Anonymity [ˌænəˈnɪmɪti] - (n.) - The condition of being anonymous or unknown.

The consumers became aware, and we got more paranoid.

7. Transition [trænˈzɪʃən] - (n.) - A process of changing from one state or condition to another.

We are in a time of Transition, times of Transition.

8. Paradigm [ˈpærəˌdaɪm] - (n.) - A typical example or pattern of something; a model.

That Paradigm of sending data over the wall and getting it matched.

9. Walled garden [wɔːld ˈɡɑːrdn] - (n.) - A closed ecosystem in which the provider controls access, content, and applications.

If you ever wonder what a Walled garden looks like, that's it.

10. Pivotal [ˈpɪvətl] - (adj.) - Of crucial importance in relation to the development or success of something else.

There was a Pivotal moment in 2018.

Navigating the Evolving Landscape of Marketing and Privacy

Aloha, trailblazers. The correct response is aloha, Ranger. Marty. Okay. Aloha, trailblazers. That was really weak. We'll try one more time. Aloha, trailblazers. Aloha, Ranger. Oh, thank you so much for that nice, warm welcome. And thank you to infotrust for having me. I am Marty, kinda. I work on product strategy for Salesforce marketing cloud. I've also written five books, one of which was turned into a Showtime series, customer data platforms on Showtime, starring Brad Pitt as Scott Brinker. Does anyone know who Scott Brinker? It wasn't, all right. It wasn't customer data platforms. It was House of Lies, a book I wrote about being a management consultant. It is my pleasure to be here today. And I want to start with a trivia question. I actually have a book coming out next month and I will give a copy of that book. It's called customer 360, and it's mostly about AI, actually, I give a copy of that book to whoever can answer this question.

In this world that we live in, there's so many things tearing us apart. But there's one thing that brings us all together. What is that? Does anyone know? It's Taylor Swift. You're right. And I also like Hallmark Christmas movies. Holiday's coming up. I was very delighted to learn that Hallmark is hard at work on a movie about Taylor Swift's relationship with Travis Kelsey. They are, they're doing it. I'm so excited. This is so great. Does anyone know the name of that movie? It hasn't come out yet. What's the name? Anyone? Just, can you guess? Nobody knows. It's not Mary Swiftmas. That was my guess. It was originally, but I don't know. Somehow that didn't work. I think it's called Holiday touchdown. It's not very good, right? All right, well, they tried. So look forward to that. It won't be this holiday season. It will be next year. And let's hope they're still together. The characters won't be called Taylor and Kelsey. It'll be something else.

Anyway, that's my intro. So I want to talk about marketing, advertising, ids, AI, what we're here to talk about today, privacy. At Salesforce, I work on the data cloud. Data cloud is our customer data platform. And there are basically two different types of marketing. There's one where you know somebody, you have an email, you know their name and their address. You can send them. You know an email, you can send them a text message. You can mail to their house. That's called direct marketing. Sort of what we're involved with at Salesforce. It's what I did at digitas when I worked there. We did a lot of email. There's also the other type, which is mediataindeh advertising. Somewhat targetable, a little bit more vague, but it tends to be Pseudonymous. Anonymous and my argument today, and hopefully I can take you with me, is that these worlds are converging. They're coming together.

Back in 2018, there was an event for ad exchanger in northern California, and I got on the stage, and the title of that event of my talk was ad tech and Martech. The marriage is off. They will not converge. And I argue that ad tech and Martech would never converge. My point was that they were too different. The types of data were too different. The buyers were too different. The skew between the percent of spend in the ad tech space is so much higher than in Martech. They would never converge. And I was absolutely wrong. So I want to prove that. We will start in the past to ground ourselves.

In 1962, there was something called, and this is real, this is actually true, the society of the Divine Savior data Processing center. It was in the middle of a farm in rural Wisconsin. It was an extremely sophisticated operation that I discovered in my research. They solicited donation. They were a catholic charity. They solicited donations for various causes. They were able, they used an IBM series 900 650 data processing system. And in today's dollars, they were spending about $2 million a year for this thing, believe it or not. So the prices haven't changed that much. Actually, data cloud today, you could spend about 2 million on it if you're big enough. They were capable of ingesting 500 punch cards. That's how you communicated with computers in those days, in, in an hour. And they output 800 lines of customized letterhead so they could do custom mailings targeted at individuals. This is their tech stack.

They had data tapes. Data tapes was the memory at the time, the memory mechanism, and then the processor in the middle there. That's what they were paying for. Then you see they have one channel. It was male. So they output labels on this custom letterhead. They had a closed loop. Somebody would see the response here. This was the manual step. This would be automated today. This is a person. They see the response, and then they would input on the card what the response was so that they could have a closed loop and keep track of it. And their response rate. Would anyone guess what their response rate was to this process? Very close. 80%. They had an eight 0% response rate. If you do this right, you can have really good response.

The core of it was their customer record. They had a single view of the customer and it was a single, and it was clean. They had to encode it on the tape. Now, back then, memory was expensive, so it was 256 alphanumeric characters per household. And on that 256 alphanumeric characters, they had presence of children in the household name and address, likelihood to respond to certain solicitations, and they also did statistical models to predict likelihood to respond to future solicitations. So they did predictive analytics. They had people just as smart as we have today, maybe even smarter. Who knows? They had statistics. What they didn't have was a technology.

So this idea of building a single view of the customer is exactly what we're trying to do today. With data cloud, it's the same thing. They just did it better in the past because it was a simpler world. They had one channel, and I guess people were maybe nicer and more likely to respond, I don't know. But we had database marketing, marketing automation, CRM, customer relationship management, which is what Salesforce is known for. And then the world of the CDP customer data platform. CDP builds a single view of the customer. That's what it's supposed to do. It arose in 2016. I was working at Gartner at the time. It was retailers, retailers who have online and offline channels, and they would have information about the same customers sitting in twelve to 14 different places. They needed to ingest that, Harmonize it, make it available to their analytics team to do measurement, to do targeting. That's where this category appeared.

And it just started in retail, and now it's sort of expanded everywhere and it's basically taken over Salesforce. If you go to Dreamforce next week, we were talking about data cloud. Data cloud. It's the single view of the customer for the enterprise. Marketing, service, service and loyalty, loyalty and e commerce and so on. And so it's moving forward. The future layers, AI on top of it. We are in a time of Transition, times of Transition. And ask, you know, describe what's going on are very uncomfortable. Anyone who has a teenager will tell you, if you're moving from one thing to another, that part is uncomfortable. I'm optimistic enough to think that where we're going is better than where we've been. I do believe that.

I have a podcast called Paleo ad Tech. So I do talk to people who were the founders of ad tech companies. The whole cookieverse, DSPS, DMP. I hate to tell you, it was not designed for advertising. It was a workaround. It was all a hack from the beginning. I will make that argument. Some of you are nodding. If any of you remember the 1990s, this will ring a bell. Netscape, the first commercial browser, 1994, more or less. It was created by a group from the University of Illinois National center for Supercomputing Applications, NCSA, one of whom was Marc Andreessen, who we still hear about today. It was mostly engineers from that team who went over to Netscape. They were hired by Jim Clark, who had silicon graphics. They moved west and they built this browser. Now this browser was the first thing a lot of us downloaded over our modem and we could surf the web. It was very exciting.

This was actually the number two most popular page at one time on the Internet, the download page for Netscape. Can anyone guess what the number one most popular page was? No one will guess this. It was pamelaanderson.com dot. She, for the younger people here was an actress from Canada. She still is an actress from Canada. Very popular at the time. So people had their priorities straight back. In the nineties, there was this thing called the fish cam. This was not quite live, but it was live ish. It was a series of frames and it was an actual aquarium that sat on the desk of this guy, Lou Montuli. Now, does anyone know who Lou Montuli is? I've spoken to him three times. He's a gentleman. He's a very nice fellow. Not that old. He's in his kind of early fifties. He invented the cookie. This is the guy. He invented the browser cookie. He was an engineer at Netscape.

And I'll tell you how it happened. The e commerce team came up to Lou. He's told me this story himself. So he was, you know, they were all busy. They weren't worried about advertising. They were building a browser. The e commerce team said, look, we have this. We want to do a shopping cart. If someone chooses a pair of shoes on this page, they go to another page. We want the shoes to be in the shopping cart. Can you build something that will do that for us? Why didn't that exist already? Well, the Internet was designed to have permanent amnesia. That's why it's so fast. One page does not remember what happened on the previous page. You don't need a continuous circuit like a phone line. That's why it worked. It was just serving pages up and up. So if you went to another page, what you did on a previous page was completely ignored, forgotten by design. So Lou came up with the shopping cart answer, which was the cookie. Browser. Cookie. So it was a way to store to maintain state in the browser.

That's what it was. Advertising was not what he was thinking about. I mean, later on, pretty quickly, actually, people said, oh, this could be used for advertising. The main culprit was Doubleclick. Doubleclick was a startup, extremely successful, very early, very well run, very charismatic leaders here in New York. It was like New York ad tech. It was founded in Alpharetta, Georgia, by a guy named Kevin O'Connor, Dwight Bearman, and this was them. This was later when they moved to click City, so called, which was where we now, Houston. It would have been up there, kind of a little farther north, but they were all over in the nineties. Double click. Welcome sea to New York. Silicon Valley. They kind of founded Silicon Valley and grew very quickly. They realized you could build a profile, Sudano's profile, about individuals using the cookie. So there's no problem with it at the time. Completely fine, completely legal.

There was, however, another company that started before Doubleclick, an ad server. And they took a privacy centric attitude. They said, you know what? This doesn't seem right to us. Somehow building a profile about individuals based on pixels you put on publisher sites and storing that and tracking behavior even though it's Pseudonymous. You don't know their name. You don't know their name, but you know a little bit about them, and it doesn't feel right. The name of that ad server was Webconnect. We all know what happened to web Connect. None of you have ever heard of Web Connect. I have no doubt they were there first. They could have done it. They were on the wrong side of history. Betting against the cookie was the wrong thing to do in 1995. This guy knows it, too. The founder of Web Connect was on our show, and he's like, hmm, that was a mistake. Oops.

All right, so then came the meme. You know what happened the decades later? Tracking around the web, Doubleclick. As far as I can tell, Doubleclick invented retargeting, the boom list boomerang tag, although others claimed to have invented it as well, advertising.com and so on. But retargeting was what got consumers to notice that somebody was aware of what they had done on other sites. Now, the amount of information that was collected about consumers is minimal if you think about what retargeting knows. So I go to a site and I see an ad for something based on something I saw on another site. What does that advertiser know? What does the whole infrastructure know well that my anonymous browser was on this other site and that I'm here now. That's it. But from the consumer's point of view, they think you're watching everything they do, including stuff they don't want people to see. So that's the issue. The consumers became aware, and we got more paranoid.

This is Google trends for the term tracking over time, and you can see it goes up. This is not a fad. The reason I know it's not a fad is because I compared it to an actual fad. Bieber. Bieber actually out pulled tracking at a certain point, and then he kind of fell off. He's still around, but he kind of fell out of favorite. So there was a Pivotal moment in 2018. This man here, Mark Zuckerberg, testified in front of Congress. This is after Cambridge Analytica. This is all going somewhere. Trust me. See, this is his pr guy. That's Zuckerberg. They're dressed exactly the same. You see that? That's like the same tie, same shirt. Why did they do that? I have no idea. And they thought they choreographed this thing down to the bone. So there must be a reason. Maybe psychologically, there's kind of power behind it, but slightly different collar versus.

I think so. Yeah. So there is differentiation. Oh, yeah, the collar. Oh, that's a good point. That's a good point. All right, well, anyway, similar. We'll say similar. So he testified at that point, 80 million people were aware of some or all of this testimony. They didn't see the whole thing, but they saw part of it. And that was when consumers became aware. Not only were the browsers tracking them around, but their apps actually were aware of what they were doing. Now, you and I knew that already. If I opened my Facebook app, why wouldn't Facebook know what I'm doing on Facebook? Of course they do, and they're going to remember it. Consumers, they didn't know. They began to become aware. And so at that point, us, we have no national privacy legislation. We still don't. We all know that. We have 50 different states. We have 50 different countries. They all have their own laws. It's extremely hard to piece together. Europe's a little bit more kind of together, though. They have their own issues, as we know.

But Apple decided to step into the void, and you can't blame them for this. And they became the neighborhood watch for the World Wide Web. They appointed themselves that, and then they started to Deprecate the cookie. They introduced ATT and ITP and so on, and then Google followed suit as they had to. And you can see the Google train here trying to get away from Apple as fast as they can, but they can't. So they're caught in this vortex driven by changes in consumer perception, which influences legislation. So that's what's going on.

And then, you know, cookies deprecated, it leaves, it comes back this year. It came back at a certain point earlier, before Google Chrome brought it back. I wrote this at ad exchanger. The magic cookie, long time Enabler of ad tech, dies at 30. It was originally called the Magic Cookie. They took the magic out. Is this Cookie, by the way, what else died at 30? Who else died at age 30? I researched that when I wrote this thing. Emily Bronte, the novelist, wrote Wuthering Heights. Patsy Klein. I didn't realize she was so young. Died in a plane crash. Jim Croce and Jesus. Well, 33. Depends how you read John. We can talk about it later. There are different ways to interpret the gospels. I'm going with 30, maybe 31.

All right. Cookie dies at 30. 30 is pretty young. It had a good life. It's still around. But as was pointed out earlier. So Google did decide to stay of execution for various reasons. There was a reaction to it. I read all the editorials. Some were skeptical, some were unhappy, some were concerned. But in general, I would say it doesn't really make much of a difference for exactly what Asch said.

So we have all digital ads, but these are rough numbers, so don't hold me. Exactly. More or less. This is in the US, 300 billion. So like half is search. So that's gone mobile. They don't use cookies there. Safari already gone opt out. This is ad blockers and various opt outs. And then cookied. Now, cookied would be bigger, except if Google introduces the option to opt out, as in at and T. I'm assuming an 80% opt out or 70%. Maybe it's 60%. There's still not that much spend in the cookie universe. So it's a small amount, 2%. 2%.

So there is an argument to be made, and it has been made that this is a way to Deprecate cookies without actually deprecating cookies. They're going to go away, so we can't rely on them. So all of the strategies that people develop for first party data and organizing your first party data and spinning up your cdp and collecting information, having relationship with consumers, none of that is invalidated. You still need that strategy. Everybody. We're like business as usual. Keep going ahead. But we're still very confused from the consumer point of view, I think there's a lot of confusion, and it's very understandable. You know, if I go to my mother in law and I say, what's a cookie? She'll kind of be, oh, I guess, you know, I have to opt in sometimes. I don't know. It's something there. All right, what's the difference between a first party cookie and a third party cookie? I don't know. What's that? All right, tell me about cookie syncing, pixel syncing. How does that work exactly, and who's tracking who and who knows what? Nobody knows that. People in ad tech aren't even clear about exactly what's going on, trust me. So there's lots of massive confusion.

But I do think, and we see this in our data at Salesforce. People do need personalization. They want relevance more and more each year, even though they don't know it. It's a kind of an unconscious bias toward it. And we notice it when it's not there. That's when we notice it, and I'll tell you why. I did an experiment, me myself. I took my browser and I deleted everything. I went through, basically a virtual Internet connection. I removed all my cookies, so I had no tracking whatsoever, including ip address. And I just looked at my ad experience. I just looked at what I saw. It was not pretty. It was awful. The worst imaginable ad experience. And it was two types of ads. One was for food, just a lot of food ads. It's kind of like you're watching cable television around dinner time. It's all food. Or class action lawsuits. Class action lawsuits.

And I thought about this for a second, and I realized I could tell why. Because it's an expected value. Who advertises? It's a combination of two numbers. One is how big is the audience? So how many people, what percent of the audience are you reaching? Times the expected value for a response. You get a response. How much is it worth to you as an advertiser? So you have two types of advertisers. One who target a lot of people. If you're a human being and it's 06:00 p.m. you probably are going to be hungry. You'll see an ad for food. It might resonate, you know, usually does, actually. On the other hand, you could show a million impressions for a class action lawsuit. And if you get one hit, you can pay for the whole campaign. Very valuable response. So it's one or the other. That's what you'll see, without personalization, trust me, consumers don't want this. They really don't. It's the late night cable experience where you're kind of scrolling through and you just see all these strange ads.

So there is this thing called the paradox of privacy. It is an academic concept. You can google it. I have, there's a lot of papers written about it. And essentially it talks about this tension. It's a tension between a desire for a personalized experience, which we need, and what we say about data. When people ask us, which is that I don't want to give my data to anybody, I'm not comfortable sharing it. So there's a big difference between what we do and what we say, and there's a difference between giving information for something that we want and feeling comfortable giving information for something that we want. I can't resolve this paradox right now, but it is something that we all deal with all the time. And there are ways around it. There really are ways around it.

One obvious way, by the way, how do you gain trust? One obvious way is to be a brand that people trust. So I'm very comfortable giving my information to Google in the search bar. They know what I'm doing and I'm okay with that. Why I trust them. Basically, I trust Google. So these are different companies. You can see customer satisfaction and trust, and they're almost perfectly correlated. You almost never see a line this straight. What that means is if people like you, if you're popular, you will be trusted. It's not intuitive to me because I can think of brands I trust, but I don't like, like my bank. I trust my bank. I don't really like my bank, but apparently that's not the norm. In general, the trend holds here. So go do that.

Unless we think this is all new. I just share this quote in passing. The family circle is not a public place and advertising has no business intruding there unless it's invited. A common attitude. In 1922, attitudes to advertising change all the time. I read the very first history of advertising, printed in 1924, was extremely positive. It said advertising was a great educating force and it's going to help democracy. Chekhov, the russian writer, said that advertising is the greatest thing to happen to democracy in the history of the world, and he just meant free expression. So the attitudes do change. It's not really locked.

All right, so where are we going? Good question. It's related, again, I think, to focusing on the consumer attitude. This is all ultimately driven by what people are comfortable with. The technology will rise to meet the challenge of the market and the market will drive it. So there's a couple things going on that I think are the most important. This is one of them. I won't ask who wishes this was a second, seven second video. I'm asking for trouble. But it's basically my point here, is that if you think about the early web, it was very text heavy and then there were more pictures and the pictures got farther apart and the fonts got bigger and then the text kind of disappeared a little bit. And then we had video, and now we can't even stand a video that's 30 seconds long. Too long. This is the tick tock effect. So people are very impatient with any kind of friction. Even having to read feels like friction because reading uses a different part of our brain. So I call it the post verbal consumer. As an author, I'm not happy to report this, this aversion to, and it's not universally true, many of us read quite a bit, but in general, people like to remove friction.

And you can see this in the design aesthetic for everything, words are coming out of logos. Mastercard, the greatest brand reinvention of the past ten years, in my opinion. And they actually worked really hard on this, but they turned this. Well, you can see it's just colors now, but it's actually animated. If you go to the point of sale and you swipe your card, there's a sound that they trademarked and then it moves. So they've turned their brand into a seven second video, basically their brand logo. Consumers prefer video to text, and the brands that do this, right, so they remove friction. What do I mean by friction? Slight delay in the page load time, a little bit of confusion in the search. Things are not exactly where I want them to be, when I want them to be there. In the digital space, it's extremely easy to change brands. I just moved my thumb. I met your competitor, your arch rival. It's very easy. So removal of friction is critical. And these are the brands that do it. We all know Tesla.

I point out what they did to the car buying experience was really revolutionary. I mean, in the past, it was awful. You had to go in, apply for credit, go home, get a call, come back. It was like, go to a different room, be scrutinized by all these people. Now you just go to the site, configure the car, apply for financing. In that session, get approved. The button appears buy now, hit the button. Tesla appears on your lawn. It's amazing. I don't even have to stand up. I did that, actually. I configured my car. My wife was standing behind me, she was watching me. So I configured my car. The buy now button appeared and she's like, don't hit the button twice. Then she said, please do, because I want one too. We didn't end up getting our Tesla, but all of our customers, Salesforce, everyone I ever talked to in the past four years, ever since 2020, before the pandemic, when Google announced the end of the cookie, that was the forcing function.

I'm telling you now, that forced everyone to look at their data strategy overnight, wants first party data. Everybody, no matter what industry you're in, you could be b, two b, you could be in any market. And they're all talking about, how do we have a better relationship with customers so that they will trust us and they will give us information. They will freely surrender an email. They will allow us to personalize their experience on our website, to send them newsletters. How do we get there? Lots of creativity in the space, a lot of amazing creativity. Even consumer product companies. Now, you might say, how is that fair? I'm Pepsi, I'm Coca Cola. I don't have a direct relationship with my consumer. Even though they've tried, I really don't. I sell through retailers. It's just not fair. Well, the secret here is you need first party data. In this new world, you do. But it doesn't have to be you that has the first party data. Somebody has to have the first party data.

That's the rise of retail media, retail media networks. All of these companies out there that have a treasure trove of information that they've gathered from their customers with consent. Next week at Dreamforce, I'll be speaking with Home Depot. They have a media network. Now, just think of the information they know about a certain segment of person, very detailed, very useful to endemic and non endemic advertisers. So somebody needs the first party data. And if you've got a lot of it, think about monetizing it, which I'm sure you are. If you're not, think about making it available to others. And if you have a lot of first party data of your own, you may not need to use the retail media networks. It depends what industry you're in.

But nobody needs to despair, even consumer products. The use of, and this is where it converges. This is where ad tech and martech converges. Something like data cloud, which is what I work on, is first party data. Essentially, it's information collected from customers or accounts. A customer could be like a business and it is often used to activate media. It is, you know, the analysts will build a segment, build an audience, send it over the wall. This is an actual Walled garden. If you ever wonder what a Walled garden looks like, that's it. There's a wall and a garden. These are real. This is not in the US. I think that's too old. Must be somewhere else. Or a community garden. It's not a derogatory term. You know what it is? It's an entity. There's a lot of them now. They're all over the place. You send it over the wall, they do a match on their side. They don't tell you who they match. And then you do an extension.

Not an extension, so you can extend the size of your audience. It's a little bit of magic, it's a little bit of a black box, but it works. It can be extremely powerful if you pick the right partner. And we have first party data. We are a major source of demand to meta, Facebook, Instagram, believe it or not. And this is not cookie data, this is emails and phone numbers. And Amazon, another big partner of ours, and Google as well, valued partner. So that is where ad tech and Martech converge. It's advertising its media, and it's only beginning. That Paradigm of sending data over the wall and getting it matched on, it's only beginning in the world of retail media. And retail media is not just retail. There are hotel chains. Marriott has a network. They also have screens. It can be configured in all kinds of different ways. Convenience stores have their own way to advertise, and it's not only on their own channels, they can have deals with one another and so on.

That's why something like data cloud and there are others, there are other cdp's as well. But this is like data cloud will sit in the middle and it's the way to organize the customer data, but it extends outward, extends through advertising, the app exchange, through other repositories of data databases like Snowflake. And that whole world is becoming extremely interesting as well.

So there's a lot of change going on in the data management space and the customer data space. But I'm here to tell you, customers are getting it together. They are organizing their first party data. They're extremely interested in privacy, but they're more interested in the relationship that they have with their consumer regulation first, because if you break the law, you're in trouble. Number two, customer relationship attitudes of customers. Number three, what are the outcomes? So what's happening? That's the order. But I think what a lot of people in the business, including myself, forget is that it's all driven by the market demand. It's all driven by what people are comfortable with and what they want and what they'll put up with.

I do think, and I'll leave you with this idea that we as consumers, as I said before, do want a personalized experience. We really do. But if you ask us, we'll say we don't. So we'll need to deal with that tension. We will resolve it, we will get there. I think we're okay. But if you give consumers an unpersonalized experience based on no data, they will not like it, believe me. Finally, more value and data, if it's organized, this is just an argument for the gravity of information. And what this means simply is it was an insight that seemed amazing ten years ago when this engineer had it, it was mind blowing. But today everyone's like, of course, you know, that's how these things happen. Looking back, it's obvious at the time, it's not obvious, but data attracts data. You see what that means? The more data you have, the more you'll get. And the reason is because you can do better marketing, better advertising, and you will collect, they have more interactions, you'll collect more information, you will get more, and there'll be the world of kind of the haves and the have nots.

So it really is important now to get the data act together. For brands, this is a moment when your competitor can get ahead of you. And they are, trust me, they are. At any rate, thank you. Thank you to infotrust for having me. Thank you to Chase, thank you to ash. And I'll be around till lunchtime if any of you want to chat about Salesforce or anything else. Thank you.

Salesforce, Technology, Marketing, Innovation, Digital Advertising, Customer Data