In this engaging interview, Billie Jean King and Ilana Kloss discuss the intersection of sports and business. They emphasize the importance of athletes understanding the business side of their careers and leveraging their sports experience into successful ventures post-retirement. The discussion underscores the necessity for athletes to build partnerships, understand their sport's business aspects, and foster relationships that can aid them in transitioning to new roles in business.

Billie Jean King reflects on her historical fight for equal prize money in tennis, which was a pivotal moment in the movement for gender equality in sports. She shares insights into how understanding business dynamics helped her achieve goals, encouraging athletes to learn the business to make informed decisions. Ilana Kloss shares her journey from professional tennis to a successful business career, managing legacies and investments while highlighting the importance of shared goals in professional partnerships.

Main takeaways from the video:

Please remember to turn on the CC button to view the subtitles.

Key Vocabularies and Common Phrases:

1. initiative [ɪˈnɪʃətɪv] - (n.) - A plan or action aimed at resolving a difficulty or improving a situation. - Synonyms: (strategy, plan, scheme)

I manage all of our initiatives from marketing of Billie Jean legacy investments and also consulting.

2. complimentary [ˌkɒmplɪˈmentəri] - (adj.) - Combining in such a way as to enhance or emphasize the qualities of each other or another. - Synonyms: (supportive, harmonizing, reciprocal)

But in all seriousness, how are you guys? complimentary

3. succinctly [səkˈsɪŋktli] - (adv.) - In a brief and clearly expressed manner. - Synonyms: (briefly, concisely, tersely)

And she quietly, succinctly, and does it properly, goes out and makes it happen usually.

4. privilege [ˈprɪvəlɪdʒ] - (n.) - A special right or advantage available only to a particular person or group of people. - Synonyms: (advantage, benefit, prerogative)

And so I feel really privileged to be in a position to be able to use the platform and the sweat equity that Billy has put in.

5. legacy [ˈleɡəsi] - (n.) - An amount of money or property left to someone in a will or something handed down by a predecessor. - Synonyms: (inheritance, heritage, bequest)

I manage all of our initiatives from marketing of Billie Jean legacy investments and also consulting

6. mandate [ˈmændeɪt] - (n.) - An official order or commission to do something. - Synonyms: (order, directive, command)

I said, would any of you together make up the difference in equal prize money for next year or one of you...

7. consensus [kənˈsɛnsəs] - (n.) - General agreement about something. - Synonyms: (unanimity, concurrence, harmony)

You had to build consensus. We had. I'm exhausted thinking about it.

8. catalytic [ˈkætəˌlɪtɪk] - (adj.) - Causing or accelerating a chemical reaction or other process without being affected itself. - Synonyms: (stimulating, triggering, causing)

So you both have been here all along the way for these catalytic moments.

9. parody [ˈpærədi] - (n.) - An imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect. - Synonyms: (imitation, satire, mockery)

I would think of the Clara Wu's, the Sheila Johnsons or the Michelle Kangs.

10. entity [ˈɛntɪti] - (n.) - A thing with distinct and independent existence. - Synonyms: (body, organization, unit)

But the league, it's single entity ownership, really, all funded by Mark and Kimber Walter.

Tennis Legend Billie Jean King Is Still Fighting for Women in Sports | The Deal

I understood the business side because when athletes come up to me and talk to me, especially tennis players, they go, well, what should I learn? What should I do? I said, learn the business. Learn the business. Don't learn just about a player.

All right, so we like to start this show by having the guests introduce themselves. So please introduce yourself and tell us what you do. My name is Ilana Kloss, and I'm the CEO of Belizean king Enterprises. I manage all of our initiatives from marketing of Billie Jean legacy investments and also consulting.

I'm Billie Jean King, and I don't know what to say. I will say it's one of the most fun things when people who never have to introduce themselves, no, I have to sometimes. But everything in my life right now, particularly, is women's forest just trying to help all sports, for women to grow and for them to prosper, and all the things I've experienced through tennis as a former tennis player.

So Jason, Alex is all, no, no, I'm so fired up. I'm like, coming out of the apologies for this, you know, crazy Superman. It's a business day, but I'm fascinated by great partnerships and complementary set of skills. As an example, Jason and I are great partners. Between us, we have 696 home runs. We graduated from Georgetown. He's a great writer and reader. I'm not. But in all seriousness, how are you guys? complimentary. I can tell already from meeting you how your set of skills compliment each other, but maybe talk about it a little bit.

Can I just say something here? Go for it. I dream it, Ilana builds it. I'm a dreamer. I'm always thinking about how it could be in the future. I always telling Ilana, we got to do this, we got to do that. And she quietly, succinctly, and does it properly, goes out and makes it happen usually. And then I help her if I can. But Ilana's a driving force of, when you see us achieve something, usually in our company, it's because of Ilana's leadership and also the other people that work at the office.

So it's fantastic. Thank you. It's very nice of you. I think Billie obviously has incredible respect for everything that she's fought for, and I think the passion and purpose that Billie has in her life to make things better for others. It's so much easier to help get stuff done, especially if it's not for you. Right? I think everything we try to do is to help make it better for future generations. And so I feel really privileged to be in a position to be able to use the platform and the sweat equity that Billy has put in.

And I was very lucky. I did play professional tennis for eleven years. I met Billie Jean in South Africa in 1966. I was ten years old, and I remember she hit a few balls with me, and I decided I was going to be a professional tennis player because of that. I was that younger generation that was in the room when the Women's Tennis association was formed in 1973 at Wimbledon. It was my first Wimbledon as a pro.

And like I said, I think it's a great privilege to be able to use all of that, to really now try to help other women's sports, because tennis was the leader and still is. But it's just been great to be able to use all this knowledge and experience. I was able to be on the court and now off the court, and I think that's huge.

I'm sure for you, Alex, in business, you have that experience of you've been on the field. So I think people respect that. And to that end, I feel really good today, because when we created this show, this was one of the conversations we had been looking forward to. And I will tell you, not to fanboy, but more to think about the moment that we're all sitting in. I was telling everyone, everyone that I know knows where I am right now, talking to the two of you.

And so I was leaving the Bloomberg office to come down here, and I talked to my colleague who was at the US Open last year, as I was, and he handed me these. Oh, yes, which you were calling from last year and on the side celebrating 50 years of equal prize money. And so I want to talk about this moment 50 years on and how it feels to you, how it felt to you last year at the 50th, now, you know, the second half of the century.

What does it feel like? Well, I'm a big believer in history because I think the more you know about history, the more you know about yourself. But most importantly, it helps you shape the future. And that's what I want young people to understand. I don't. History is living. It's not dead. It's living. We're making history as we talk today, right now.

So it's really, really important for young people because they're our future. They're our future leaders. So I'm always trying to encourage them to know history, because the reason I think I was able to have my dreams is because when I was a child, I did not grow up in tennis. Tennis was, I didn't even know what it was, I grew up in pro football, pro baseball. I've come from California. We didn't even have a pro baseball team.

So I watched AAA, and then Susan Williams in fifth grade asked me to play tennis. And I said, what's tennis? Just. You're kidding. Thank God for Susan Williams asking me to play. She is on my blessing list every morning because if Susan Williams had not asked me to play tennis, I would have never had the life I've had. So every time I see her, I still am touch with her. I go, thank you, you're on my blessing list.

So I went out and I said, well, we're at a country club, so I know I'm not going to play. But Valhalla and the coach of a softball team we're also playing on said they have free instruction here every Tuesday. Free instruction means I have free tennis court. I have a coach, Clyde Walker, first time I meet him, at the end of that day, I knew I wanted to be number one in the world, but I also wanted to change the sport.

Once I read the history, I read the history immediately. And women were very, weren't in it very much so. But I already dreamed about changing tennis from, it was amateur. The best players were called amateurs. And I go, that stinks. I go, if you're an amateur, it's a hobby, but if you're a pro, it means you're really good.

Remember, I grew up around pro sports. I don't think amateur, right? And so I thought, I got to change this sport. I got to change the sport for men and women. Just, we've got to be pro. And so finally in 1968, we got our first prize money at Wimbledon. Finally, we're pro. Rod Laver won 2000 pounds and I won 750 pounds. I go, oh, no, now I'm going to have to fight for that, too.

Like, you know, we're going to have to do that. So these are the things that got me crazy. And then I wanted the men and women to be together in the sixties, late sixties, and they didn't. They kept rejecting us. Unfortunately, I still think we should be always together as an association. But anyway, the men went ahead and did their own association in 72, we did ours in 73 is what you're talking about, as well as the equal prize money that year.

But in 1972 at the US Open, I made 10,000 to win it, and Eli Nastasia made 25,000. This is really the second year we'd had a tour, the Virginia Slims tour, and I had had it. I was exhausted first of all, because all I did was play and promote. And I said, you know what? I don't think the women are going to come back next year unless we get equal prize money.

This isn't 72. And then I realized I haven't talked to the women yet. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, I should have talked, but I couldn't help. But it was just a feeling I had in the finals with the media. Remember, we didn't have social media. This is. This is the people who tell our story, and mostly men.

I don't think there are any women yet. And I just remember saying, we're not coming back. And of course, they love that. They're writing like crazy. But then I went and talked to different sponsors that we had relationships, because I was part owner of tournaments. So I understood the business. I said, would any of you together make up the difference in equal prize money for next year or one of you? And I went to different people, and Bristol Myers came back to me and said, we want to do the whole thing.

I went, holy Kamali. I said, the whole thing. It's only $55,000, I think, at the time, if we stayed the same. So I went to Billy Talbert, the director, tournament director, who was also a great player and a great businessman, and I said, we have equal money. And he said, you have the money? He turned white. He went, you have the money? I said, yes, we're all set.

I said, bristol Myers wants to do it really well. I thought the board of the USTA had passed it the next year, and they did not. I found out the truth is that Billy Talbert just announced it in 1973, after Wimbledon. He announced that the US Open was gonna have equal prize money. So I'm very indebted to Billy Talbert.

I wish he were still alive. Cause I didn't really know the whole story at the time. But that moment, and I feel like that is a key learning, was show up with the money. You found the money. Well, I know it's about money, but see, because I was part owner of tournaments with my former husband Larry, that I understood the business side.

Cause when athletes come up to me and talk to me, especially tennis players, they go, well, what should I learn? What should I do? I said, learn the business. Learn the business. Don't learn just about a player. Players just want more, right? More money, better rooms, better food. They just want more. Okay.

I said, how about the person who spent the whole year risking a one week tournament? Do you ever ask him or her or them how they did. How did they do? I always go over to a promoter or whoever owns a business, say, how are you doing? Because they took the risk for me to play that week. Every single week someone's taken a risk. It's business and it's money.

So I think it's really important the players understand business. And I also want players to go into the business after they're finished playing with their career. So I'm always trying to encourage them to learn the business and learn. And relationships are everything. They are everything. I'm imagining a young Alex Rodriguez going in your cleats to go see owners. Yeah. You learned that lesson.

I sure did. And Magic Johnson, your partner, he told me, Alex, while you're playing, learn the business, build relationships, because once you're done, they're not going to answer your emails or your calls as much. So build it now. And it was just the most incredible advice. He's correct. I started my business probably in my fifth year.

I played for almost 25 years. So once I retired, I can hit the ground running. I can really turn on the turbocharge. And again, that's part of putting the work in and thinking really long term. I think too many athletes today think, what's a transaction? What do I get? What room do I get? How's my food?

Instead of thinking, how do I build a partnership that can last decades? I think the greatest teacher of business is playing sports, and it's professional sports. Even better. But getting your butt knocked out, the agony of defeat, it brings you to tears. I know baseball does. I don't know if tennis does. Oh, it does.

It's all the same, believe me. I've played all the sports literally in tears, thinking, Jason, am I ever going to hit this fricking ball again? And you're getting booed at Yankee Stadium. And you're just like, I am a bum. And to be able to come back every single day, you have to do it in business. But I'm interested what lessons or attributes most helped you and transferred from athlete to business for both of you?

Alana? Well, I mean, I think the thing about sports, or competitive sports or all sports, really, you win or you lose and you get immediate feedback. And I wasn't as good as Billie Jean. Yes, I was a pro, and yes, I was highly ranked and won a US Open and a couple of titles. But losing was tough and you lose a lot more than you won in tennis.

And it's also a little different when you're mostly an individual sport. Right? We do have doubles and we have other team events, but a lot of times you're alone, you won or you lost. And that's actually one of the reasons I got out of playing pro tennis, because I had a hard time separating how I did on the court versus the rest of my life. But I also, because of Billie, and she was a mentor of mine, I did learn the business, and I knew that I loved the sport.

And so for me, actually transitioning to the business was so much better because I could have a goal and I could work towards it. And, of course, you want to win, and I love to get to the end result, but it was a process, and it wasn't also as public as being a professional athlete. Washington. And that's why I actually like doubles more than singles. Cause I felt like I was out there with a teammate. Yeah, but also, you're a born salesperson.

Her dad was great in sales. Her dad never got a salary, only got commission. He was always the number one salesperson in South Africa. And Ilana, it's in her blood, I'm telling you. She knows how to sell, she knows how to finish. Like, she gets the yes and then you get the first check. That's what Ilana does so well.

I love that. I'm reading Jason's book you wrote about a decade ago about the titans of private equity, right? KKR, Carlisle, Blackstone, so on and so forth. What I find fascinating business, Wall street, titans versus sports is the titans speak every day, four times a day sometimes. And they can be competitors. Right.

Blackstone does a deal with Carlisle. KKR does a deal with, you know, TBG athletes. We don't talk to each other, and there's not enough collaboration going on. And I hope, and maybe it's gotten a little bit better, Billy. But I hope that that's something in the future, that athletes can come together for the greater good, both socially and in business. I think together they're better, obviously. Right here.

Obviously right here. Totally your thoughts there. You had to build consensus. We had. I'm exhausted thinking about it. What do you remember about the seventies? I go, I was exhausted. I averaged 4 hours of sleep a night.

And I'm playing, by the way. Oh, yeah. Oh, playing tennis. Yes. Well, I think it's, again, in our day, we also didn't earn as much money, so you did not have these incredible support teams that they have now. Right. So, I mean, we would warm each other up, even if they might be your opponent. And I remember Billy would help Chris Evatt learn how to serve or volley and we, you know, that's what we did, right?

We went out and competed, but we shared a car to drive to the next tournament. Or sometimes you shared a room with your opponent. I think it's become such big business now that the athletes are very isolated. They have a team around them, and, you know, that team is driving their business. And I think also the whole media landscape's changed.

I mean, for Billy, we were encouraged. The media were our friends. They told our story. Without them, nobody would know who we were. Nowadays, you know, everyone can tell their own story. But I always listened to Billy saying, you know what? You need other people telling your stories, not only yourself, but it was just different.

There's so much more money in the game, and in some ways, that's fantastic. I mean, Billy's like they're living what she dreamed right before them, so. But it's very different. And I wanna talk about that specifically. Cause if you look around today, you know, we had someone just say to us yesterday, it's not a moment, it's a movement. What's happening right now?

It's been a movement for you for a long time. I'm saying it now, which makes me happy. Right? I used to say it's a movement. Yes, of course. What are you observing today that is different or feels different? You have been here. You both have been here all along the way for these catalytic moments.

Is there something different happening now, Billy? Definitely. I mean, we're starting to get the ratings. We used to have about 4% of the media content and people watching us. Then we went up to 5%. This is only, like, four years ago. We're up to 15% now. Wow. And media contents, where the money is, this is.

It always goes back to money. Okay? It's business. And one thing I know, Alana, when you were talking, I was thinking also, the agents have changed the landscape a lot, and they've made it better in some ways. And in a lot of ways, they've made it a lot worse, I think, because they don't want their players talking to anyone.

That's all about. Let me take care of it. The players don't talk to each other enough. They need to talk to each other about going into business later or even while they're playing, if they can. I want them to be part of this because they understand it. And we as players, we didn't have coaches. That's why we helped each other.

We didn't have any money. The money they spend is fantastic. No wonder they can play longer. No wonder they play better, longer. I mean, look at the difference from when we were playing and what the players get now and how much money, the travel, how much better it is. That's just in our little tiny world of tennis.

But if you look at baseball, look at all the money they make now. My brother played in the seventies, Randy Moffat, with the San Francisco Giants, which is so odd. We were the Dodgers fans and he got drafted first round by the Giants. Of all players. He played seven years there. He's a relief pitcher. He said he's pretty average.

And I thought, well, average is fine for the MLB. I played twelve years, so you have to be decent, good slider. But I think the most he made was 125,000, probably. So people have to understand that in 71, when we had our first tour or first year of the tour, I told Larry, I said, I'm going to try to make 100,000 so people will watch the tour, they'll start getting interested. And it's our job to promote the other players.

So when I talk, I'm not talking about Billie Jean, I'm talking about the other players and the tour and the money and what we're trying to do as promoting all the time. So I think it helped for me to win money, and I won over 100,000 in October of 71. So I was the first woman athlete to make over 100. And then Chris Everett was the first one to make over a million, like quickly.

I think one of the things that you asked is what's really changed? And I think for women's sports, if you go beyond tennis, because I think tennis and golf, these individual sports have always had decent money and prize money and sponsorship, the individual sports. But the big thing that I think has changed is that the billionaires are investing in women's sports. And that is huge.

I think if you look at who's buying NWSL teams, WNBA teams, who's investing in the Billie Jean King Cup, Mark Walter, who's the Dodgers owner. He helped us start a women's professional hockey league, TWG. His company invested. So it's people, men and women. I mean, you have Michelle Kang, who is an investor in the Washington NWSL team, Sheila Johnson, been doing women's sports forever in DC.

You have Clara Wu Tsai, who owns the New York Liberty. So I think people with real wealth and experience and business knowledge are investing, and that makes a huge difference. I think prior to that, you would get people who loved women's sports. Maybe they had a daughter who was trying to be a pro, or maybe they just cared. They didn't get to live the dream, but they didn't have the big money.

Now, the big money is looking at women's sports as an investment, not as a charity. And that's huge because you have a Runway to be able to build. I mean, the PWHL, which is the hockey league that started this January, I mean, we have an eight year business plan. Wow. So you can invest, and you're not under that pressure to make decisions that aren't smart decisions, because it does take time to build.

And women's sports, sports is so far behind men's sports, and so we need time. And if you have investment to help you build, I think it's unbelievably exciting. And, you know, for Billy to be alive to see this, I mean, it's great. And people coming to us and asking us to share our knowledge because, I mean, she really did help build it. Right.

And she is the goat. And so. But it's really this investment that, you know, people are now believing that women's sports is a good investment, and that's what's changed a lot. Yeah. So let's talk about the hockey for a minute, because you touched on a couple different things, both the people and the money, and I think specifically the sustained investment.

Right. Because I believe that's got to be sustained. If it's not sustained, it's not going to make it. And that's what's happened in women's soccer over the last 20 years. It was not sustained. Correct. It is happening in hockey. How did that happen? Take us inside that deal, because there were some phone calls and some arm twisting.

It's funny, we meet a lot of the athletes, actually, through the women's sports foundation at our gala. They'll come to the dinner and they'll start talking to us. So we met Kendall Coyne and others, and Kendall called us. We happened to be at a Lakers game, and Ilana took the call and went into the hallway. And Kendall Coyne, who was the captain of the women's USA team for the Olympics, world championships, she said, can I talk to you?

So she came to our apartment here in New York and said, would you guys help us? What do you want? She says, well, we want a proper league, not like the leagues that are being played now. We won't play in those anymore because they're not pro and we need help. So Ilana and I met with them in Chicago, and Alana goes, all right, you have to talk to him.

See, I do the talking, she does the work. So anyway, she says, talk to him. So the first question I asked the women, I said, do you have an association or a union? And they were blank. And they said, no. Well, I said, that's the first thing you have to do. And because Canada and us are always at it, at each other, because in Canada, ice hockey is a religion, but they're always against each other a lot, the Canadians and the Americans.

I said, you guys have to be together. So if you're willing to do that and put it out there, we'll do everything we can to help you. And Ilana spent an enormous amount of time with helping them get an association. And then we said, well, who should run the association? You have to have an executive director or somebody. Oh, and every single one of them said, jana Hefford.

Boom. Like that. She's canadian, she's a hall of famer, very good in business, which is the difference. And so she's done a great job with them. But Ilana helped that day in and day out process of becoming an association, and now they've become a union because of a collecting, bargaining agreement. It was a five year journey from the time, you know, Kendall called us, and, I mean, to be honest, we used a little bit of the playbook of forming the Women's Tennis association, right.

A little bit different, but history does tend to repeat itself. So first thing, one voice, you know, which was great because all the top players were willing to come together, and we learned that from tennis, right. When there were two separate tours, we got them all together because you want all the best players playing in one place. You know, we spent an inordinate amount of time, hired Deloitte to do some, just some modeling and research what it would cost.

And what I think is really interesting about this, in the beginning, it was very much player driven. You know, the players were involved and they came up with what they thought would be a league that they wanted to play in that was professional, right? Not earning 7000 for a season or sleeping on a couch or flying into a city. Minnesota. Kendall actually played for Minnesota.

And, you know, they'd fly in on a Friday, play a couple of games, and then fly home to Chicago because they had a job. So we really tried. First an association, then they organized. They were amazing. They played for no money for like three years. Just organize play. Played for dream gap, right? Yeah, dream gap tour.

We were building a model that we could take to investors. We went to NHL teams. We went to Gary Batman a couple of times because we thought the NHL has the infrastructure and wouldn't it be great just to put a w w NHL and some of the teams were interested? And I have to say, gary always met with us. He always provided us with these people to talk to, but it really wasn't something that they were willing to undertake.

And I think you don't just get in this and get out. You want the sustained investment. So while they were helpful, they weren't willing to make a commitment to run the league. Billy and I had gotten to know Mark and Kimber Walter through our investment in the Dodgers, and so we kept talking to him about, you know, we think this is a great opportunity.

There's a pretty clear landscape. You know, there isn't a truly professional league. There were other leagues. And, you know, he kept challenging us. You know, it doesn't work with two leagues. You know, somehow you've got to get one league. You know, is there a collective bargaining agreement? We're like, no, because they don't have a union.

You know, it really was. We hired a lot of the players to go out and do promotional work to help promote, and they formed a union, and then we were able to negotiate a CBA. So it really was a process. But the league, it's single entity ownership, really, all funded by Mark and Kimber Walter. But I think that's a great model to get started because you want parity across the league and you don't want one team who has huge investment and then the other team doesn't.

And we had run world team tennis, a professional tennis league, for almost 40 years. And that was the old model, right? You sell franchises, but the difference in ownership investment is not good in the beginning. So we have this single entity ownership model. We were incredibly fortunate. Mark Walter, Stan Kasten, who's the president of the Dodgers, he did a great job.

Royce Cohen, who works with the Dodgers and actually came from MLB, he was amazing on the modeling. And, you know, we've had an opportunity to build this, but you can do everything right, and you're never sure people are going to come. People came big time. It's crazy. We have 20,000 people in Montreal. Tickets sold out, I think, in a few hours.

So there's this need and incredible, because we have this long term investment, we can build it in a way that's sustainable. We put every game on YouTube, tv, so anyone in the world who wanted to follow women's hockey could see it. But that costs money. So, you know, I think it's just so exciting to be part of something that has the investment that's needed.

Can you give us an idea of how much money, I mean. Cause, look, to sustain something for eight years, you're gonna be a loss leader probably for the first three or four years. And the model will show that you're getting to positive cash flow. Is it tens of millions? Yes, tens of millions. Keep going. It is.

Look, I think people say, well, how long are you in it for? As long as it takes. That's the answer. I just think the plan is to build it and make it an incredibly valuable asset. And already people are interested in buying. They're interested in buying. So it's really, really. You can't believe these families.

You know, it's been so great because, you know, girls have never been able to have the dream, right? Usually in hockey, the girls and boys play together and they go to the ice rink together. And then when the girl turns eleven or twelve, she's told, okay, now you have to go play, you know, be an ice skater. You can't play professional hockey or there's no program. So now they can have the dream.

And I mean, everyone should have the dream, right? They never have had the dream before. Now they can have it. Now they can have it. If you can see it, you can be it. So we know we've done something good and right, thanks to Mark and Kimber, because you can have all these dreams, but if you don't have the money, it doesn't matter.

Exactly. Billy always says, follow the money and you have to have it, so. Right. I mean, we were very lucky to meet Mark and Kimber in Chicago, actually, at a charity fundraiser, at a fundraiser. And we ended up going to dinner a couple of days later. And I, Mark said to Billy, geez, you know, I own the sparks, the LA Sparks, and would love to get you and Ilana involved.

And Billy, without missing a beat, I mean, I almost fell off the chair. She's like, why not the Dodgers? Nice. Why not? Exactly. And she was right. And Mark was like. And Mark was like, why not? He said, why not?

But it was so interesting that, you know, the first thing that the discussion started was with the sparks. And so actually getting involved with the Dodgers and being at the big boy table, as we call it. And, you know, not just having a seat at the table, but Billy talks about how important it is to have a voice and to be able to learn. And yes, we got to spend more time with magic and with the other dodgers owners. And I think, you know, you just learn and you grow from that.

And so I want to dig a little deeper on something you said, which is being at that table, you know, essentially saying, why not the Dodgers? That's the first time I had the guts to do that, because girls were taught not to ask for what we want and need. And that thing flashed through my head. I go, okay, I'm a woman. Here we go. I'm a girl and I'm old now. It doesn't matter.

It's the same brain. You know, you're like, don't ask for what you want and eat. Why not the Dodgers? I grew up with the Dodgers. Right. You know, and my brother played professional baseball. And so anyway. And Mark, I could not believe when Mark said, why not? I went, oh, my gosh, I'm glad. I asked for what I wanted and needed.

I wanted it, right. I know, but I'm so chicken usually to do that. I don't think anyone has ever referred to you as chicken. No, I'm a chicken sometimes, but it is. It's. I am, actually.

I don't like confrontation. You can ask a lot. Billy is quite shy, and, you know, she's okay fighting for others, but for herself. So it is interesting. So usually I ask on her behalf. Alana's got much more gut staff than I do. I'm a wimp.

So I want to take you guys back a little bit, because you talked about the Dodgers. And when you look at the Dodgers, if you zoom out, you can arguably say you have the best ownership group and management team. I mean, you go from Mark Walters to Todd Bowley, Stan Kasten, Lon Rosen, Andrew Friedman running baseball. Is there one or two nuggets that you can share with us that you've learned that you can take to your other sports teams? Because, and by the way, I'm going to make a bold prediction.

As you think. This will be the first team in professional sports around the world that will cross the 1 billion revenue mark for a year? That's just my guess. I have no information. What about the Yankees? I think they'll get there before the Yankees. But I may be wrong, because money and the expansion of Japan and Asia. Yes.

Because I really do think. I think we just went over, like, the 3 million mark in ticket sales for a season. I think three or four teams will do that. I mean, it's a good question. I think. Why are they so successful? Yeah, I think that. Well, mark's brilliant, for sure. Mark is.

He is brilliant how he thinks things through. He just keeps pounding on how to think he's brilliant. And they're also willing to invest for the long term. They are not short term thinkers. And also, I think just the entire management team has so much experience from other things. Stan Kasten, I think he did NHL team. He did the Braves. I think he did basketball.

I mean, they just. The wisdom that they have in the knowledge base. And again, I think they're not afraid to invest. I think they're older. It helps. They've been through more. You know, most everyone that you just mentioned are not 20 years old or 30 years old or even 40 years old. They're probably in their fifties and sixties.

So I think they've had a lot of experience. And all of them have had experience, not just one of them. Right. You know, and as Lana talked about Stan, who did a great job with the PWHL, I mean, they went out and hired 200 people in a week and a half, for instance. I mean, I'm like, if you want something done, get Stan cast and involved. Once they make up their mind, boom, it's done.

They take a lot of time thinking about it. They're not. Well, that's exactly. That's what I love. You really learn. You gotta go through every little thing long term, short term. What's gonna happen? What if nobody shows up? Then you gotta get arenas. That was a nightmare. I mean, yeah, but I think it's a little bit like Billy always thinks about everything that could go wrong right ahead of time.

So by the time she went on the court, she was totally calm because she had gone through every. All the good and all the bad. And I think that's how you win. And I think it's the same thing with anything we've done with the Dodgers or with Mark investing in hockey or investing in tennis is he really challenges us to think about everything so that nothing is a surprise. So in your mind, you kind of have gone through the steps.

But he's brilliant. I've never actually met someone who has challenged me as much and been right. And maybe that does inform an angel City type decision, being at the table with the Dodgers owners. What have you taken away that you've then applied and sort of honed your playbook in investment? I think just ask, really, if you really want to do something, ask us.

We had to ask angel city. They did not ask us. Really? Yeah. We called Julie. Exactly. We called Julie Ehrman. I mean, Julie Ehrman, who's one of the co founders, she's great. Yeah, she's. Sorry. Yeah. So, I mean, obviously the reason that I think it came to my attention was Serena's husband.

Right. Alexis Alexa Sohanian had invested, and he talked about making an investment for Serena's little daughter at the time for Olympiad. And so we were like, wow, that's weird. You know, we know Julie fowdy. And so I asked, hey, Julie, what's up? You know, why didn't you call us? I mean, we.

You know, we're kind of into women's sports. And she's like, oh, my God. I really didn't think about it. But she was. Call Julie. I called Julie, and she said, you know, we're almost done, but, you know, of course, we'd love. Maybe we'll make some room for Billie James. Yeah, we've invested. We would have invested a lot more. Well.

And fascinating. We know Bob and Willow, right. Bob Iger and Willow Bay. Right. So Willow Bay and Bob Iger is the dean, also at Annenberg school. We should just. And, of course, if you don't know Bob Iger, he's ahead of Disney. Hello. Yeah. And so what's fascinating about that? We talk. I mean, this is the deal.

We talk about money. They come in at a $250 million valuation. The expansion fee was somewhere between two and $3 million. That. That was the initial. You guys roll. You just keep going with Angel City, presumably, but what does that say to you each? This is the largest price, largest valuation for any women's team ever in the world.

How significant is that? Or is it just one day to pull significant? Because every time it goes up, everybody notices. Then everything else starts to go up. People start to believe, because when people believe, things happen. Well, in women's sports, I think it started with. I think the San Diego wave sold, like, 120 million.

And then you get a couple of years later, Angel City. And now you look at what the expansion teams are going for in WNBA, over 100 million. So it's definitely this wave of people believing. But I think the Angel City deal is just a proof point. But they took three years to get started. That wasn't done. Yeah. They planned for three years before they started Angel City. Right.

And that was tough for them because they did not have, you know, it was a huge group of investors. It wasn't just one. And I think we've been very fortunate with the hockey, to find, you know, one person who's willing. Who has the wealth and willing to commit to building it, because one of the things that Angel City did, I believe, and keep me honest here, is they were ambitious about going and finding new sponsors, new money to back the team, and they were able to create revenue that wasn't just reliant on ticket sales.

Correct. But they were going into the community and getting. But they also give the community a percentage. Exactly. I don't know. I might think 10% of every sponsorship deal gets reinvested in the community and then they give the players a certain percentage.

You know, just recently the NWSL have changed their structure where, you know, there's no draft. There's not going to be a draft. Free agency. Wow. So it's really interesting. And I think they realize that there's so much competition in Europe and the UK with women's football, women's soccer. And so, you know, I think that was a brilliant move because we might lose some of our players. Right.

We need the best players in the world here because historically the best players have played here, but now they go to England and the world is catching up. Correct. Because all of the Premier League have of men's and women's teams. Yeah. The premier football or soccer. So that was a significant move from the NWSL.

So what happens with the business of Tennis? There are all these rumors that the ATP, the WTA are going to come together. Please, please. When I hear that rumor, I go, please, please. I don't know. You want it to happen. I've always wanted us to be together. I've always felt we're more powerful. It's not just what we can do on the court, it's what we do off the court to make the world a better place.

Right. And also, we're men and women, and a lot of genders now are in this world together, and we have to be together and help each other. We should be for each other. I don't care what gender you are as humans, it's one sport. You play on the same size court. It's sold as a joint asset at the big events, the media rights. But it's a real challenge.

I mean, people have tried for years. The thing with tennis, sometimes we get, in our own way, seven organizations. You have the four grandsons, you have the ATP, the WTA, you have the international Tennis Federation. And everyone kind of has their own agenda. There's no commissioner, per se. Oh, they all want a commissioner.

I said, really? We have seven organizations, no challenges. And also the calendar goes from January through November. So it is a challenge, but it's a great product. When the men and women play together, those tournaments are, have a much higher valuation. So I think there'll be more and more collaboration. And it feels like the investment case for CBC, which obviously is a big shareholder in the WTA now is pushing for that.

I mean, that is their investment case, right? Is that fair? Of course. No question. Because I think the properties together are. Well, yeah. When you have an investment company, I always tell all the players, you guys, they have to get their investment back. They're not going to do this just for fun.

And they go, huh? I'm like, that's why I want them to understand the business so they can help. But it's great that we have these type of companies investing, that you have billionaires investing in, buying some of the tournaments, and we want them to be successful so that they don't kind of fold up their tent and leave. So it is important that tennis gets its act together and that we start working together.

But I really believe that there's a big push towards working together because the assets are much more valuable together. All right, so we're going to do a rapid fire round. I'm terrible at this, and we're going to bounce back and forth, but we want you each to answer the questions. If I can. If Alana probably can. Don't count on it. I'll ask questions, you each answer it.

And then you'll ask yes. Okay. I'm more explaining it for myself so that I remember. All right. What's one word to describe your deal making style? One word. What's a word for when we worry about what they get as well as what we get? I think partnership. Yeah, partnership would be good.

What about you? I think this. I mean, I just kind of walked through that, didn't I? No, I'm big on teamwork. Working together. Yeah. Everyone's got a win, or else it's not good. Okay, so what's more important, instincts like gut or actual data to make a decision? I do use both. Both.

I have to. I'm mostly gut. What's the hardest part of making a deal? The beginning, the middle, or getting it closed? Ah, that's easy. Close. That is hard. Closing is. Closing is difficult.

But for me, if I can get in the door, usually I'm gonna find a way to close. So it's really getting in the door and being able to tell your story and build that relationship, you know, build a connection. Yeah. All right, so who's your dream deal making partner? One person you can make a deal with as your partner. Who would that be? I think we already have it with Mark.

Mark Walter? I think so. Look what he's done for us already. All right, we'll make it fun. Give me another name besides Mark. I think beyond Mark. Walter. I would think of the Clara Wu's, the Sheila Johnsons or the Michelle Kangs.

What's the best deal you've ever made, Billy? Best deal? Marrying a lot. That one's paid off. Yeah. No, it's just. It's bright. All right, so what's the best piece of advice you've received on deal making? I think Warren Buffett's always been a great guy.

I think he always talked about friendship, relationships and all that, and he just reinforced the relationships are everything. He really did enforce that. I think you've talked to him a lot. He loves baseball. I would say that both people feel like they've won. Yeah. What's the worst advice you've ever been given? Ending a deal on a very negative way. That's good.

And, you know, walking out or banging the door. Burning a bridge. Yes, burning a bridge. Exactly. Yeah. We're not big on burning bridges. What's the point? All right, so what's your hype song before a big meeting or a big negotiation? For me, it would probably be simply the best Tina turner. Okay, I have a two, actually.

Sorry. And Frank Sinatra. My way. Okay, that's good. I love Aretha Franklin. Respect. I love it. R e s d. Sock it to me, suck it to me. I love it.

If you can watch one sport for the rest of your life, but just one, what sport is it? Oh, my God. You're killing me after this discussion. Are you kidding me? For me, it has to be tennis, because tennis gave me everything. Okay, without tennis, I wouldn't be here today. Yeah, I probably would agree. But I love basketball, too.

I grew up in basketball. All right, this is an interesting one because of all the teams that you guys are involved in. Which team do you want to see win a championship? More than anything, I think has to be dodges. I'd like to see the sparks doing better. We're in the second largest market in the country. We should have great teams. One fun fact about yourself that your colleagues will be surprised to hear about. We know a lot about you, Billy.

I think Ilana probably brought it. I don't. I play by. I like to play by the rules. Drives her crazy. You know, I grew up in a family. My dad was a police officer and a firefighter. Really loved his basketball. He's good, but we played by the boy. Rules were really important.

And everyone thinks I don't play by the rules, but I do. I'm like, misrule. Like, don't turn there. We shouldn't turn there. It says not no, I'm terrible. And Ilana goes, nobody would believe what's going on here. I do all my best thinking when I'm out running, jogging. I think that changed my life, because I could go the distance, didn't matter how long.

It was all for me. And so I still look at running as something that I can do. That's totally for me. Well, I agree with that in part because I went for a run this morning, mostly because I was so nervous about this interview, and I just needed to, like, get in the headspace just to take the edge off. Just to take the edge off. And sort of. Did you do it outside, Jace? Oh, yeah.

Nice. Went running along the Hudson river by my house, and it was gorgeous. And the Hudson is beautiful. Maybe I did better owing to that, but this was a dream. So thank you both. Thank you both. It was really a treat of be on your show and to see both of you, and both of you so successful.

And, of course, Ilana loves to see Alex on shark Tank. She loves. It's wonderful. I mean, we get. Billy especially gets asked to do a lot of things, and we really wanted to do this. We're really pleased. I'm gonna invite you over to tv.

We will. You know what? A lot of people don't realize we're in business, though. It's amazing. So we love being on this show because we love business. I've been in business since 1968. No one knows it. They think I played tennis.

It's amazing how many athletes and people in sports love talking about business. I mean, we don't ask about baseball technique, but we talk about the business. Right? Meteorites, the culture, how's it going and how it's all connected now. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. Thanks. I know we went over here. Thank you, guys. Thank you.

I could talk all day on this, you guys, because you guys have a lot of ideas.

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