The video discusses Sue Bird's transition from a highly successful basketball career to becoming a prominent businesswoman and entrepreneur. The host highlights Bird's achievements, including her championships, her pivot to the business and media sectors, and her significant investments in sports teams. Bird talks about her journey, sharing insights on adapting her skills from basketball to the business world, particularly in production and sports team ownership.

Sue Bird reflects on her formative years at UConn, the decision-making process during college, her professional career in the WNBA, and her experiences with media attention and business opportunities. She elaborates on the differences between college and WNBA experiences, the cultural and economic challenges she faced, and her initial investments based on trust in acquaintances rather than business knowledge. Bird discusses societal changes and growing interest in women's sports, highlighting the increased support, viewership, and social media influence.

Main takeaways from the video:

Please remember to turn on the CC button to view the subtitles.

Key Vocabularies and Common Phrases:

1. seminal [ˈsemɪnl] - (adjective) - Having a strong influence on ideas or events that come later; groundbreaking. - Synonyms: (influential, pioneering, original)

All right, so if we can, let's go back a ways to the start of your basketball career, or not the full start, but probably the seminal moment where we're all introduced to you, which is at UConn.

2. pivoting [ˈpɪvətɪŋ] - (verb) - Adapting or changing direction in response to circumstances. - Synonyms: (altering, adjusting, changing direction)

It's really interesting the way she thinks about pivoting from being a world class athlete to now doing some great things in business.

3. seminal [ˈsɛmɪnəl] - (adjective) - Being influential in the development of something. - Synonyms: (pioneering, innovative, groundbreaking)

All right, so if we can, let's go back a ways to the start of your basketball career, or not the full start, but probably the seminal moment where we're all introduced to you, which is at UConn.

4. cultural cachet [ˈkʌltʃərəl kæˈʃeɪ] - (noun phrase) - The cultural respect or prestige something holds. - Synonyms: (prestige, status, influence)

And that all speaks to, like, the cultural cachet that I feel like pro sports usually has that women's basketball.

5. discrepancies [dɪˈskrɛpənsiz] - (noun) - A difference between two amounts, details, reports, etc. that should be the same. - Synonyms: (inconsistencies, divergences, variations)

Then you have Sedona Prince. She shares her TikTok of the discrepancies between the men's and women's training rooms.

6. empirically [ɛmˈpɪrɪkli] - (adverb) - Based on, concerned with, or verifiable by observation or experience rather than theory or pure logic. - Synonyms: (observably, demonstrably, evidentially)

We've all seen anecdotally, but also empirically is this rise in viewership.

7. catalyst [ˈkætəlɪst] - (noun) - A person or thing that precipitates an event or change. - Synonyms: (stimulus, spark, trigger)

But Together was formed before this. We launched, like, shortly after, but the wheels were in motion, things were in place, and boom, when we launch, we're ready to catch all that.

8. inculcating [ˈɪnkʌlkeɪtɪŋ] - (verb) - Instilling an idea, attitude, or habit by persistent instruction. - Synonyms: (instilling, indoctrinating, implanting)

He would always try to tell us this is how you want to feel on the basketball court. Prepared. Right. Like, of course, when you play a game, anything can happen.

9. consciousness [ˈkɒnʃəsnəs] - (noun) - The state of being aware of and responsive to one's surroundings. - Synonyms: (awareness, mindfulness, perception)

I think we were, like, in the consciousness of the casual fan.

10. nuance [ˈnjuːˌɑːns] - (noun) - A subtle or small difference in meaning, expression, or sound. - Synonyms: (subtlety, gradation, distinction)

Assuming the investment that I'm looking at is something that I feel like values are aligned. I feel like I can, you know, provide some sort of whatever it is, nuance, expertise.

Why Sue Bird Thinks Women’s Sports Has Finally Broken Through - The Deal

On this episode of the Deal, Sue Bird. All right, listen to this resume. Two national championships with UConn. Four WNBA championships with the Seattle Storm. Five gold medals for the United States of America. She did it all as a player. Now she's in your business as an owner. How's she doing? It sounds like she's doing pretty good. Not only is she in my business with wnba, but also we both started our careers in Seattle and she played obviously her entire career there. I played seven years. It's really interesting the way she thinks about pivoting from being a world class athlete to now doing some great things in business.

Absolutely. She's in my business as well in the media business. She started a company called Together with Chloe Kim, Alex Morgan and Simone Manuel. She's got a podcast with her partner, Megan Rapinoe, another athlete we've heard of. Lots to talk about with. Super. You look nice. I like the time. Thanks. Thanks. I tied it myself. I'm very proud. All right, well, welcome. Please introduce yourself and what you do. This is like the hardest question. Now that I'm retired, I don't like it at all. It was so much easier just saying. Sue Bird, professional basketball player. There you go. My name is Sue Bird. I am a retired professional basketball player. I am currently figuring my life out, but I am, I guess an entrepreneur getting into the media space. I'm a co founder of a media and commerce company together, but also co founder of a production company at Touchmore. Own a couple professional sports teams as well. Yep. I'm in Gotham FC and NWSL as an investor and then part of the ownership group with the Seattle Storm, the team I played for.

And so what would you say so far is your signature deal? Ooh, I think what I'm finding is a lot of how I played basketball as a point guard. I liked things to make sense. I liked, you know, things to fit. To go from A to B to C in a way that set everybody up for success is really what production is like. So as I'm getting more into the world of production, I'm really seeing my point guard skills show themselves. All right, so if we can, let's go back a ways to the start of your basketball career, or not the full start, but probably the seminal moment where we're all introduced to you, which is at UConn, to call it a historic program, it actually undersells it. Talk to us about getting there. You know, you grew up on Long island, you get to UConn and UConn's already UConn at that point, what is it like? Take us back there.

Yeah. So, yes and no. Okay, so they had won their first national championship in 1995, and that's Rebecca Lobo. They go undefeated. What makes UConn, I think, have success from a fandom standpoint is that they're not quite Boston, they're not quite New York. So if you're, I don't know, Red Sox, Celtics, whatever you are, or if you're Yankees, Knicks, Mets, whatever you are, down here, the people in Connecticut needed something, and so Connecticut people really rallied around. So, I mean, God, the fans are so amazing at UConn. So anyways, Rebecca Lobo hits that 95 team hits, it blows up. They're like everybody's sweetheart. It blows up. I get to school in 98. We end up winning my sophomore year, 2000, and that was the next championship.

Oh, okay. So I was a part of the second one, right? Yeah, a lot of times. Yeah. You think Yukon, you think the 11, you think. It's always. So I was there pretty early, but it still was like a very prominent pro. It was the program at the time. And so, I mean, and. And you experienced this as well in. In a slightly different way, but, you know, choosing where to go to college, for you, that. That's one of your first big business decisions. Yeah. Right. So how did you make that decision? Like, what are the. What are the conversations like with your family? Like, how do you decide? So my parents were really big on academics, and, you know, UConn's the top 20 public. We're doing all right. But I was also being recruited by Stanford. I was also being recruited by Vanderbilt. Those were actually two of my other final schools.

So I actually had to battle a little bit with my parents on wanting to go to Connecticut. I remember my dad, one of the final things he said was, like, do you want everyone, you know, to be from the state of Connecticut? Like, do you want the person you marry to be from the state of Connecticut? And, you know, you had a good point. Yeah. You go there, and outside of the athletes, it's a lot of Connecticut residents. But at the end of the day, I mean, Even as a 16, 17 year old, when I was making the decision, it really just felt right. And if you fast forward to now, I can. I can sit here and honestly tell you that a lot of the decisions I have made, whether it be the teams I'm choosing to play for or investments I'm trying to make, ownership groups I'm getting involved with, it's Always a feel. There's like a feel there that you gotta follow. So it's not that different.

I do want to go back to that idea of what your dad said, because obviously no one could have known exactly what was going to come after that. But I mean, not only are you not limited to people from Connecticut, I mean, you become on that platform one of the most famous athletes in the country pretty quickly because of the platform that. That UConn has. Were you aware of that as it was happening? Because as you said, it was early days for UConn. It really starts to happen while you're there. What does it feel like? God, great question. I've never thought of it this way. Because of that 95 team and because of Rebecca Lobo especially, there was national attention always on that program. And so when, when me, and not just me, I had.

I came in with a class of five and all top recruits, all we had the number one, like tippy top, right. So we. We came in with our own attention. Yeah. Our own national attention at times, you know, you play in the All American game, you have a lot of that hype coming in with you. So it really was, I think, a really good blend. Like I said, my class and then what was already happening at Connecticut and it just became normal. Like when I got there, the media attention, the amount of coverage we got, I already mentioned the fans sold out. So we played in Gamble Pavilion on campus, which is only 10,000. But then we play in Hartford, it's called the Excel center now. That's like 16 plus sold out. No matter what. Every now, every game, whether we're playing like the crappiest team you've ever seen or, you know, the number two team in the country, whether it's a beautiful day out or, you know, 20 inches of snow, people are getting to those games. And that just became the norm for us. Like the hoopla. We couldn't, you know, we would go to the mall or whatever we would do. Recognized everywhere. It really became normal. I didn't see a shift. Cause there wasn't a shift. Right when we stepped on campus, it was like that.

I think it had already been brewing in that way. It's interesting to think about sort of that fame and notoriety now, what that would translate to, dollars wise. Do you ever think about that? Of course. Nil. What do you mean? Yeah, if nil around when we were in college, because we really did have. It was a. It wasn't just my class. I don't make it sound like that. Like Coach Ariama plays a huge role in this. Sure. Who he is, how he is, his personality, his little, you know, he's his little one liners in media. That combined with. In a lot of ways, the people of Connecticut took us in like we were their daughters. Yeah. Like that's how they would treat us. Like they would send us cookies all the time and brownies on our birthday. Like there was, there was, I don't know, this familiar thing happening. Yeah. But it all led to.

And then the basketball play. We were dominant in my four years. I mean, we were dominant. So you're winning all the time. And I think if you look back in the history of women's sports, there are. So now that we've broken through in 2024 in these unbelievable ways, especially in basketball, it's going to feel normal. Right. Like all these franchises are going to have crazy success, whether it's attendance, viewership numbers. But if you look back at the history, there always were random teams or random programs that somehow found a way randomly. I'm just thinking of the Portland Thorns, the NWSL team in Portland. They sell out. They've been selling out for years. They kill it. And it's just like, oh, like, what happened? What's the magic potion? Why aren't people copying it? But I think the truth is there's just some scenarios or there were some scenarios where like a couple of variables were the right exact recipe. And UConn women's basketball falls into that. And then you add on the NCAA tournament. Yeah. Which is just like a marketing machine.

Right, Right. So you talk about your four years at UConn. You obviously played for a legendary hall of Fame coach. A few questions. What lessons did you learn from coach and your time of winning? Because all you did at Connecticut was win. How has that shaped you into business today? I think the two things I take with me from Coach Ayama, one is preparation. He always used to tell us about. He would do this, like, comparison between how it felt when you were, you know, ready for a test. Right. How it felt when you had studied for that test. How you feel when you walk in that classroom versus when you crammed and you weren't quite ready. And just. He would really. I vividly remember it was like tapping into that feeling because I feel like we can all right. Now close our eyes and feel what that feels like. Right. You walk in the classroom triggering. Exactly. Exactly. Same. And so he would always try to tell us this is how you want to feel on the basketball court. Prepared. Right. Like, of course, when you Play a game, anything can happen. You have to. That is what it is. But the things that you can control, you have to. And you have to prepare in the ways that you can. So that I took with me, for sure. And then he used to always say, basketball is not a game of how to, it's a game of when to. And that, I think, is probably, well, the preparation as well. What does that mean? Everybody knows how to shoot. Everybody knows, especially at a certain level, right? Everybody knows how to dribble, shoot, pass. But do. Do they know when to. Do they know when to do this? Do they know when to do that? And to be honest, when I think of my own play, that's probably been the separator for me because I'm not the tallest. Like, I was fast when I was younger, but, like, as time goes, you're not the fastest, you're not the quickest. But I knew when to do those things. I knew when to pass, I knew when to shoot. I knew when this needed that or that needed this.

I love that. I want to just share one quick thing there because Lupinella taught us. Another common denominator is I played in Seattle my first seven years. Started in 94 and left in 2000. And who was a great teacher, would always say, the when. When do you do this? The scoreboard would teach you when you take, when you swing, when you try to hit a home run, when you move a guy over. So that resonates with me as well. I want to talk about this transition from the college game, which is. We've talked about massive to the WNBA when you made it, and I've heard you talk about this in interviews. The culture shock, as it were, of going from guaranteed sold out to far from guaranteed sold out, to say the least. I think we're interested in what it feels like as a player and as a human. But at that point, you're becoming smarter and smarter about the business. What are you making of that as you make that transition so early on? Nothing. I'm just, like, cool. I'm a professional athlete. Yeah, like, whatever. I'm figuring it out. You know, I'm moving from New York, Connecticut to Seattle, which was difficult, super far from everybody. So I'm just kind of, like, getting through it. Some of the early stories or early memories that I have that I've told about is when, you know, I've just gotten drafted fresh off the plane. The Sonics are in the playoffs, and they take me to, like, what is, like, my first media day, essentially. And they're preparing me for it and I'm kind of like, okay, cool. Like I've just come from the Final four, you know what I mean? And, and Yukon. And I walk in and I'm like, well, is everybody here yet? You know, because there's not that many people. Right. And so that was, that's the culture shock you're talking about.

And then of course, you know, college, you're flying charter, everything is like, you know, you're staying at the Ritz's or whatever it is. And interestingly enough, we didn't charter. Obviously the WNBA didn't. But the, my rookie year, we were actually still owned 100% by the NBA, so we hadn't gone to individual ownership models yet. Right. So I, I did have like one year, maybe two. I can't remember exactly where we still were getting some MBA treatment. So the, like, we didn't, we didn't fly charter, but the hotels we stayed in were all super nice. You know, we, we had a practice facility because we were with the Sonics, which was kind of standard at that time. A lot of the WNBA teams use their MBA affiliate practice facility. But yeah, so we had some bells and whistles. But then I think the media coverage is probably the best story to tell. That that showcased like where, where it was compared to college. But very quickly I started playing overseas and I, I actually just say this as like a matter of fact, we were all making so much money overseas that in a sense, I don't want to say we didn't care because we cared, but because we're making so much money over there, when CBA negotiations come up, we were like, okay, whatever, just get it done. We want to keep playing. We weren't in the weeds, right. We want to keep playing and the money's fine, not here, but over there. So let's just do it.

And so when you say making a lot of money, give me a range of. For me personally, we are in the, or the league high, low. It's hard. Yeah, it's hard. It's so individual. So I would say early on, I mean always well over six figures. And early on, like my first couple years, we're talking like I've got, I'm really going back like in the like three to six hundred thousand dollar range. But that's all like, it depends how many months you play. So usually you're, that's what you're making in Russia. Yeah, yeah, in my first couple years. But I only went for like five months. So like bang for your bucks. Not so bad. By the end of my time now we're up in like, the million dollar range. Wow. So I would say, like, that was started probably like, let's call it like 300,000. And then by the end, I was much closer to a million. Wow. And yet with bonuses you can get over. Right. And you've got endorsements and all that, and yet it's plateauing generously here. And so how are you sort of rectifying that in your mind? What. What are you thinking and what sort of business decisions are you making with all of that in mind for.

Yeah, so none of my business ventures, if you want to call it that at that point in time. So let's call it. You know, I'm in my 30s. Let's say, like, I'm 44 now, so I'm like 30 years old. They were all. I was betting on people. Like, I have a good friend of mine who I grew up with. I always joke, if he had called me and said, I'm opening up a zoo, I would have invested. Like, I'm opening up the. I would have invested. He wanted to do restaurants. That's like my first big investment. So we now have, I think it's five in the Boston area.

So what kind of restaurant? Like, upscale bar food vibes, like. But that's how it started. And I got lucky. They killed it. I got my money back within like a year or two years. Wow. Yes. Killed it. I know. In the restaurant business. I know that's a major league. I know, I know. Yeah, I got lucky. And as you're writing these checks, is there a part of you that's excited or part of you that's more nervous? I know. I was excited. Excited. I really. I feel like I was investing in the people, not the businesses themselves. And so whether it's given your background or buon or whatever it is, do you feel confident as a. At that point, as a business person? You're like, yeah, I got this. No, no. Okay. No. But I feel like I can sit here now and say I'm confident in my ability to read people. Another business I'm invested in are, again, a friend I grew up with. Her and her husband have sports center facilities in New Jersey. You know, you rent it out. You do. You host, like, leagues have their tournaments there, that kind of a thing. Killing it. Yeah. But I invested in them. Right, right. It's very shark tank in that way because, like, it's their life. And I'm like, you know how, like, they always invest in people when it's, like, their life. Yeah. So I felt like it was a good investment. Yes, he does know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shark Tank. Robert, I want to get inside your head a little bit, as opportunities must come from all over the place. Are you someone that goes kind of wide and shallow or narrow and deep in the things that you like? And walk us through. If a deal comes through, how quickly do you say no? How quickly does it go to? Like, there's a maybe, and then.

Yeah, I think I'm more. So I'm learning. I'm still learning very much. I've had moments of wide and shallow. I don't like it. I don't like it. I like narrow and deep better. And I think assuming the investment that I'm looking at is something that I feel like values are aligned. I feel like I can, you know, provide some sort of whatever it is, nuance, expertise. Then it does. It usually moves pretty quick. I kind of know right away, like, when something catches my eye, I kind of know right away. And then when something feels a little. Not often in a bad way or a negative way, but just maybe not right, I kind of get like, that initial. Initial, like, ping. And then obviously, like, the financial piece of it is usually what I have to figure out, just, like, how much is, you know, like, how do you do this? You know? So that's always. Could be scary. Yes, that could be very scary. And I've, you know, I've hit and I've missed. So I want to talk about, you know, one big decision that you. That you make in your career. That's one of the most recent decisions. And it's something that comes to you, which is you're done playing, and somebody sort of, like, virtually knocks your door is like, hey, do you want to own part of this team? Or at least that's how the story gets told, actually. Tell us the story.

No, that's not that far off. It was actually right after I retired. Okay. Probably a month. And, you know, obviously have a great relationship with the ownership group in Seattle. So, like, hey, we want to show you. So they were just opening up and doing, like, a raise for, like, a small amount of investors. So the three women that own our team, they were the sole owners, and then they just were doing this raise in this moment. So I was being asked to get involved in that. And they're like, we want to show you the investor deck the same way we've been showing everybody. Like, we want to treat you like a real. You know what I mean by Real? Yeah, yeah. Like. Like, we don't know you. Basically, like, we want to present. So a lot of this is going to be redundant. Your picture is going to show up a couple times. Just ignore that. But this is what this is. We've had some of the most impressive and important players in history, including. You might have heard of her. Subert. Exactly. Yeah. So I was like, okay. So they sat me down. We did. You know, they took me through the whole deck. And obviously, this wasn't about convincing me in. To believe. Right. Like, I believe. Like, I've been preaching that people should get in the dub for probably the last three, four years. It was like, get in now, because A, you're gonna look like a genius in 5 to 10, but B, in a couple years, it's not gonna be this cheap. Right. Like, get in now.

So I didn't need to be convinced of any of that. But in the moment, what I wasn't sure about was because I've literally just retired. I was just like, well, how does this impact any other business things I might want to do? Because it does. I mean, we all just saw what, What, What Tom Brady. That, like, laundry list of things he can and can' Being an owner of a team when you still want to stay involved in the sport does have implications. So I just wasn't ready to pull the trigger yet. And that's the only reason why it took. It ended up technically taking like, a year and a half to get done. Okay. For like, a year, I just, like, waited. I see. I wanted to see what was what. What impacts this. What impacts that. I kind of wanted to live my life. Yeah. Not have to worry about, you know, like, our CBA negotiations are going to start soon, so we can't talk about anything. Right. Right. So, like, that. I want to be able to, like, be free to speak. I didn't want to be held back. And then as time went, I was like, okay, I don't want to be. I want to be a genius. I don't want to be the idiot who got into.

Yeah. So you said something that. That I would love to dig into, which is what you were seeing from a business perspective while you were still playing. That made it so obvious. What was it that, like, just made you so convinced other than it's an awesome game. Yeah. There's got to be something tangible from a business perspective that you're seeing. What is it? Yeah. So I'll actually start at the end, which is. So Paige Becker's is, you know, about to be a Senior. Whatever year it was, she was in. In high school. Okay, senior in High School, 20, 18, 19, something like that. And I'm starting to see on social media, like, this kid's got buzz, people are following her. I said, you know, you go to her Instagram account, who knows what it was? She's got 3, 4, 500,000 followers, which, for a high school kid, a basketball player. So I saw that and I was like, huh? I was like, something. Like, something's. Like there's something is clicking for that generation. So that's kind of the end, because when I saw that, I was like, oh, we're good to go. But from my own experience, what I already knew and what a lot of us already knew was, yes, we weren't making a ton of money from our WNBA salaries, but I was getting endorsement deals. I did have value, like, significant financial value to come speak at events or represent, you know, a certain company or. I mean, even down to the like, hey, my kid's getting bat mitzvahed. I'll pay you this to come show up at this event.

So there was like a disconnect. I was like, wait a minute, I'm getting these offers off the court because I'm a basketball player, but on the court, the business part of the basketball is not getting the looks or the value. So then I start learning about how the systems are not really set up for the WNBA to succeed. So I knew it wasn't going to be easy. But I also was like, the reason that this has not kaboomed the way we're seeing it now isn't because people don't like women's basketball, right? Like, how many times would you hear 10 years ago like, nobody goes to those games? And then I'm like, well, that's weird because I was just in the finals and it was sold out. And people are seeing it now and they're like, wow, look at this crowd support. And by the way, the attendance has been record breaking. It's not to take away from this year. Every finals I've ever played in has been like that, with the exception of a few where we couldn't play. Not in Seattle. We had to go on the road and some of those teams couldn't get their arenas, so we had to play in smaller arenas. So that happens. See how the systems aren't set up? But all you hear all the, all the narratives and the conversations were like, oh, nobody cares. Nobody watches. But I knew. I walk around the streets, I get stopped for pictures. Like, obviously people care. Right. And this is 10, 15 years ago. So anyways. But if you bring it back around to seeing the Paige Beckers getting that attention in high school, I was like, oh, something's changing.

And that's a really interesting point because I remember that. I remember that very well. Paige buckets, like, all of that going. You know, she commits to UConn. It's like, oh, UConn. You know, here we go. And the same sort of thing. And there was. It certainly presaged what we saw over the last two years. Right. Or the last maybe three years in the NCAA with. With Caitlyn and Angel and. And whatnot. Like, the. The page mania was real. There's a lot of heat around her. Yeah. Yeah. So now, like, for me, what that. What that said was like, society's changing. Like, younger people are interested in women's basketball or girls basketball. She was in high school. Yeah. You know, and you had even. Not just girls, but boys. Like, what I remember during the pandemic, you know, we're all bored. Paige was, like, going on her IG live. Yes. And, like, people were coming in. You know how you bring someone in and it's like, NBA guys. So that. That's different now. That's different. And that all speaks to, like, the. The cultural cachet that I feel like pro sports usually has that women's basketball. For some reason, we were. We were. You know, I always, like, we were the butt of the joke on SNL skits. Yeah. We weren't. We weren't cool just yet. And. And Paige, to me, marked this moment of coolness. I mean, especially given this moment. You alluded to it, that we're sitting in for women's sports, there's a lot of when to. It feels like going on. Going on now.

So when you make this investment, take us into that mode of thinking. So some of it's luck, in a sense. I think together is a great example of the when to. This was a scenario where it was 20, 18, 19. I get a call from Alex Morgan, and she has this idea, and the easiest way to tell it is, you know, she calls me on the phone. She's like, you know, LeBron has uninterrupted. Right. Derek Jeter has Players Tribune. So these athletes are starting to build these platforms to tell other athletes stories. She's like. And they do cover women. Like, both of them, they've covered women's. I've been covered by both of those platforms, but there's not one dedicated to women's sports. But the when to of it all is here. You had myself, Alex Morgan, Chloe Kim comes on board, Simone Manuel. Four athletes that have been living our athlete lives. We see what's happening in front of us, we understand the landscape and we can, like, sense something. So we all come together and together gets formed.

Now, the lucky part is you can't predict what happened in women's sports from, let's call it 2019, equal pay for the World Cup. The women, the US women's national team, 2020 happens. What comes from that is the WNBA does their bubble season. A lot of activism. We're able to stand for something bigger than ourselves while playing the game that is now on TV a lot more because there's nothing on TV right at this point. Then you have Sedona Prince. She shares her TikTok of the discrepancies between the men's and women's training rooms. So you have all these moments that in some way we're luck, right? But Together was formed before this. We launched, like, shortly after, but the wheels were in motion, things were in place, and boom, when we launch, we're ready to catch all that.

And now where I would argue, one of the more important platforms in telling athlete stories. And again, we were just ready to do it. So when this moment hits, we're right on top of it. Describe what it started as and is it more or less what you imagined it would be? It's not too far from. From from how it started to where it is now. But I think when it started, we were just trying to tell the stories of women in sports, right? Shine the light on people that don't always get the light shine on them. And as you know, as it turns out, you fast forward to now, you start to realize, you know, men's sports, a lot of their fans are generational fans, right? Like, you go to a Yankee game because your dad took you and because his dad took him and so on and so forth. And that's how a lot of the fans are, like, become die hards. And for women's sports, we just don't have that history yet. And so for women's sports, a lot of it is the storyline, it is the player stories. I feel like the best parallel is the Olympics. Like, we all do. We turn on the Olympics. You happen to catch a special for, like, somebody who's about to, I don't know, play badminton, and now you're like, tuning in. You're like the biggest badminton fan ever. Women's sports thrives on that. We have data around that now. So the shoulder programming type stuff.

Yeah. Like. Yeah. Understanding the players, getting to know them in a different way. And so much of men's sports, like, we know so much about male athletes. Like, Megan always says this. Oh, he knows. Yeah. By osmosis, almost. Yeah. Like, we know what they eat for breakfast. You don't even know how, but somehow you do. And that just doesn't exist as much for women's sports. So Together's part of Together's mission statement was definitely to make a mark in the media landscape in that way, telling these stories, whether it's, you know, a quickie on Instagram where you tap in, you see something for 30 seconds, or becoming more like long form, whether it's documentaries or series. And so that was always what we wanted to do. But I think the part we couldn't have predicted was the community that it built and how the identity of the company itself, almost, was, yes, dictated by the founders, but more so dictated by that community. Like what they wanted, what they were, you know, inclined to be almost, like, obsessed with. And then you're kind of feeding that.

It was almost like a North Star, in a sense. I bet she never thought she'd be in the T shirt business. Talk about that. I mean, that's incredible. I mean, that's a fascinating business story. So one part of it is it shows you the gap in merchandise that exists in women's sports. You can't get, like, cool stuff in women's sport. It's changing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not really talking about the last couple years. A friend of mine and I were just talking about the, like, pink it and shrink it. I actually didn't know that term. Oh, I don't know. What is it? Yeah, so, yeah, I didn't know either. So it's basically like, all right, we'll use the Yankees. I bet when the Yankees, at some point, let's call it 15 years ago, when they wanted to get merch going for women, they would make it smaller, obviously, and then they would just make it pink. Pink it and pink it and shrink it.

So. But the truth is, like, not everybody wants that. Right. Like, I actually would prefer to have like, a real, you know, Yankees uniform or whatever. Like a jersey. Yeah. You'd want it, like the authentic thing. You don't want the pink version. That fits me. Yeah. Yeah. So all that to say the everyone watches women's sports T shirts proves the huge gap that is in merchandise in women's sports, but also it proves we're business. Right? For a long time, women's sports was looked at as a charity. This box some people would check. And now I think we're being looked at as like, a real investment, a real business. But the people involved in this world are still very much about the impact, and they're still very much about making statements and making points. I think when people wear that shirt, there's, like a pride to it. Like, yeah, like, this is factual now, you know, and so there's something to that. How did the T shirt come about? Like, what's the origin story? Yeah, so I was not there. Like, I'm not in the day to day by any means. Yeah, we had done a couple of different T shirt drops through the years. And then this particular time, they were in a room, from what I understand, a bunch of the people that work it together, just kind of throwing out ideas and, you know, oh, I mentioned this earlier. A lot of people are like, nobody watches women's sports. And so they were like, what can we do to, like, play on that? Like, do we do a shirt? And you know that. I didn't know it was called this, by the way, but SpongeBob SquarePants font. Yes. Where it goes like, uppercase, lowercase, uppercase, lowercase. So they were thinking like, oh, do we do something like that? As if to say, no, you know, you're making fun of it a little bit.

And then I think it was Justine Brown, a couple people in the room, they were like, why don't we just write like. But that's wrong. So why don't we just have, like, everybody watches women's sports. And there you have it. Wow. And it went crazy. And a big pivotal moment of that was Don Staley wearing it during a South Carolina game on. I want to. I want to say national television. Yeah. And then it just took off. And so is. Is something like that within the company? I mean, is it measurable? How do you measure the impact of something like that either on your business, on the broader world? Like, what. Are there metrics underneath that that you can then use? Yeah, I mean, this one's pretty simple. It made a lot of money. Yeah, it made a lot of money that wasn't expected, which obviously in business, that's always, you know. Right. Millions. So. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know if I'm supposed to, like. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, way up there. So now, like I said, this was this arm of the company that was there, but not really given a ton of thought or dedication to. And now it's like, oh, like, we have something here. Like, what do we want to do with this? How do we want to grow this? How do we want to sustain it? And so now those are the conversations, because you're doing team. You'll do a collab with the team, right, with their team colors.

Yeah, yeah. And we did. For the Olympics, we did it in French, which was really cool. So that was nice. I'm sure there's going to be more. And so that becomes a sort of, if I'm understanding you, sort of an unanticipated growth area, then for together that you continue to invest in. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Totally unexpected and now totally real. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, one of the things that I think we're. We've all seen anecdotally, but also empirically is this rise in viewership. Like, so how does that sort of carry through to what you're doing, the decisions you make about what to make? It's sort of the how to, the what to, and the when to that you mentioned earlier. So how did those viewership numbers affect you? Honestly, it's just kind of like a big I told you so. Like, oh, if you invest in this. Because for me, the story of the wnba, like, if I were to be like, super simple about it, was, look where we got without any investment. Now imagine if you invested in it. Like, we were able to do this while having, like, legit concrete poured all over us constantly. Like, nothing can grow when it has concrete poured on it. And yet we still found a way. And sometimes this one's a little bit of a stretch. I'm working on this talking point, your workshopping this in real time. I love it. But I always felt this. I was like, women's sports, girls sports isn't some, like, random startup where we're like, no, trust us, like, girls aren't going anywhere. They're going to keep being born, and sports isn't going anywhere. Like, these two things, like girls sports and women's sports are not going anywhere. So to me, it's like, why not invest in something like that? And then, of course, when you start to change the narratives, that's probably been the biggest key and what I call that cool factor. Like, we have crossed this line of cool now where culturally, like, like the WNBA Finals, like, people felt, like, the intensity. There were stakes on that game. Yeah. Like, you know, I'm actually not like, a huge baseball fan. I like, tap it. But, like, the World Series, like, hell, yeah, I'm watching that. Right, right. So we never had that. Where the casual is like, oh, this means something. Yeah. So anyways, somewhere in there is what I think changed that. Like, what? What changed it?

Because that stakes point is a really, really interesting one. Like, what changed the perception of the stakes? I think it's this cool factor that I keep referencing. I think we were, like, in the consciousness of the casual fan. We weren't worth it. It didn't matter. And I always feel like in fandom, there's, like, three categories. There's the die Hards. They're there no matter what. Like, doesn't matter. They are there. They're a ride or die. Then there's the people that don't like it, which every sport has that. Yeah. The people that don't like it. And that's fine. I always say, like, women's basketball, if it's not your thing, that's cool. Like, try it. But if it's not your thing, that's cool. Like, there's stuff I don't like, that's fine. But then there's that larger piece or that larger group, which is the casual fan. Right. The one that isn't really into it but is going because their friends are going. And it's cool to be there. And so we've always struggled in that. And that's where I'm going back to this consciousness. People just. I mean, we were the butt of the jokes. Yeah. And it was really hard to break through. So if I were to nutshell it, I would say things that I've already mentioned. The 2020 season, like a Paige Becker's. The NCAA Final Four has always been amazing. Sedona, Princess TikTok, Kobe Bryant wearing the WNBA hoodie. Like, there was these little moments of breakthrough. And then all of a sudden, this player named Caitlin Clark comes. And the way I frame it is fire was going. It was burning. It was burning, and it was burning brighter. Like, even if you look at the 2023 viewership in the WNBA Finals, it was way higher than 2022. Like, it was starting. The fire was there. But Caitlin came and she poured gasoline all over that thing. Yeah. And just took it to another level. And she broke through, I think, with her logo threes. It was. We finally had the antidote to dunking.

Oh, interesting. Because all anybody ever wants to say is, you're not. Not literally. They don't literally say this, but what they are saying, the translation is like, you're not worth it. I can probably beat you. You can't even dunk. But now it's, oh, that Girl's hitting logo, threes. Like I don't think I can do that. Yeah. And everybody respects that. Men, women, there's a respect factor and that leads into all the things you're seeing and the cool factor and it just is born from there. So you talked about years ago, even a decade ago, you starting to foresee what could be for the W. Fast forward to where we are today, five, 10 years. What is the upside for this league? Because I don't think anyone really knows that. Yeah, no, I know. I mean, I'm hopeful that in a couple years we look at the media deal that we just signed and we're like, oh, needs to be bigger. You know, I'm hopeful for that because that's, that's always been part of the, you know, the argument. Like men's sports is so obviously so successful. Pick a league, it doesn't even matter. But how much growth can actually happen? Only like a percentage point or two. Right. And you hope for that but for women's because we haven't had the investment, the media coverage, all the things, the growth is insane. And it is, it's hard to put a. An exact number or figure on it.

I personally think my semi hot take, it's not that hot. I think the women's basketball is going to be the biggest story at the LA 2028 Olympics. And I think that is going to. We're going to continue to grow in the next four years. The way you've seen it this year it's going to continue to grow. The Paige Becker's, the juju's, Flauje Johnson, all of this young talent that builds huge brands and huge fan bases. In college, by the way, that's another part of this whole story that was always a major disconnect. I went to UConn, I had huge following. WNBA Con. It was like it didn't come with. And that's for years. Yeah. But now it's starting to. I think nil plays a role in that. And now it's starting to. So now all these young players are going to come in, they're going to hit the stage and meet up with the Caitlins and the Stewies and the Asia Wilsons. And in four years, when we hit the Olympics, that growth will get to a point where that Olympics could then be like that next gasoline layer, if you will.

You know, one way, Jace, one way of thinking about it is there's always going to be haters for every league. Right? For men, women, you name it. Everyone says, well, the W has been a failure for so long. I look at it a little bit different. First of all, you got to give David Stern, Commissioner David Stern a lot of credit for his vision, you know, almost 30 years ago or whatever. But if you look at the NBA compared to the WNBA in the first 25 years, you can make an argument that a W has been more successful than NBA in the first 25 years. So when you think about upside, it's right on track. It is a growth business, and it's doing quite well for being such a young league. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, that's one of the talking points for sure.

Let me ask you this, because I think it's very interesting when you said UConn, you have this enormous fan base, and it doesn't transfer when you go to Seattle. How much has social media impacted that? Because one of the things that I looked at was like, wait a minute, they have more followers than some of our guys. Yeah. What's happening here? So you have a real metric in your face that you can't ignore even if you are a hater. So how much has social media played a part in that?

Huge, huge. Some of it is that we have big followings. I think you're right. A lot of times you go check a male athletes and it is. It's surprise. You're like, oh. It's like it catches you off guard for a second. And I'm thankful for social media. It played an incredibly huge role in what we're seeing now. Not just in women's basketball, I think all of women's sports, because we were all able to use it to tell our stories. We were all able to use it to show different parts that you weren't seeing. I mean, one of my favorite, favorite. It's not a great story, but favorite because it kind of tells the story. So I'm into fashion. It's not like my favorite thing, but I like getting a fit off every now and then. And when that was becoming cool in the NBA, we were also wearing our little fits to the game, but we didn't always have photographers. So there was a year where I had to, especially on the road. So at home, we could tell our team, like, hey, can we get the photographer when we show up? Cool. No problem. But on the road for your tunnel fit? Yeah, for a tunnel fit. But on the road, we couldn't get a photographer. There were years where we had our PR guy on his iPhone just, like, snap it. And then what we would do is we would post it on our own social Media, and that's one example. Social media. There's a thousand. But that's one example I like to use to show how we were able to use social media to show stuff that the larger, I guess, media landscape wasn't going to get to see if we didn't put it on our own channels.

I'd love to talk for a minute, if we can, about your partnership with Megan Rapinoe, especially when it comes to the investments that you guys have made in each other's sports, the work that you're doing together with a touch more. And how does that all work and how does it evolve? Well, we're in couples therapy, so there's your answer. No, it's been good. Sometimes we hear that on the pod. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, it's been great because Megan and I are so different but really complement each other and we're seeing that show up in business. Like, I'm, you know, I just preached preparation and know when to. So I'm like very much like the planner and I like, I like to like when we do our pod, you know, I'm kind of the one more leading from like one topic to the next. I'm the one, like keeping that run of show in my head, whereas Megan's more spontaneous and more off the cuff, and you need both. So you're like Jason. Yeah, basically. And what have you learned?

I mean, I'd be interested in what you've learned through the Gotham investment. I would imagine, you know, these are two, you know, growth leagues. Different paths, different stages of growth. Yeah, Women's soccer has literally failed three times already professionally in this country. The W, to Alex's point, has been, you know, growing slowly and then all of a sudden, really quickly. How do you. What do you take from each of those? The better way to answer your question is actually when Megan and her national team were in their equal pay fight, they were also doing a cba. And it was pretty much at the same time that we were doing our cba. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Because to your point, the leagues are different. We're very lucky at times. I've called the NBA gift and a curse because it's such a gift. We wouldn't be here without the NBA. But the curse part of it is sometimes you need individual attention, you know, so that exists, but very much a gift. And the WNBA is so much further along because of, you know, what we've been able to learn from the NBA. Whereas the nwsl, it has like, almost less rules, whereas in the wnba, we're very much at times we're hamstrung by MBA rules. Now, sometimes they fit for us and sometimes they don't. And that's what we're figuring out or we have been figuring out. But my point being, we.

We were able to learn from each other. Interesting. We were to be like, oh, that's how you would do that. Like, oh, let me see if that would work over here. And vice versa. What I've seen in my time with Gotham is now that the Tisch family has bought the team, you really see what it means. And I feel like you guys have done this, a great job of this with the links in Minnesota. Like, you see what it is when they put investment and you see what it is when they're like, go get those good players. Championships, come finals come now. Where the leagues are totally different is the salary cap of it all. The WNBA is a hard salary cap. There is zero wiggle room. You are like, you either your money fits or it doesn't. Like, that's it. Whereas the nwsl, it's. They have like a little more. There's a little more like fluidity in there where you can kind of. I don't even know what to call it. It's not. Yeah. Angel City just had a thing, so I don't want to say.

Yeah, we're going to move to the rapid fire portion. I love a rapid fire. 10 questions. We're going to hit it hard. You're a pro. We'll bounce back and forth. What's one word to describe your deal making style? Quick. What's more important, your instincts or data? Instincts. Who's your dream deal making partner? Oh, man. Alex, what's the best piece of advice you've received on deal making or business? Probably something in the do your homework world. I don't have like an exact quote. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. When to. I mean, what's the worst advice you've been given? I haven't really been given advice. Guys, I'm open for advice. Who wants to give me any, good or bad? I am open. What's your hype song before a big meeting or a big negotiation? I'm a Jay Z fan. Okay? So anything Jay Z? Yeah. I mean, I have my go to's, but Lucifer's one. Okay. My first song's another. You've won at the NCAA level, you've won at the WNBA level, and you've won at the Olympic level. What's your favorite title? God, it's real. I know. This is rapid fire. It's really hard not to pick Olympic gold medals, particularly my last one, because it's like. Particularly your fifth. Yeah. Yeah. But the 2018 WNBA championship does have a special place.

Why? Because we were going through a rebuild, and I stuck around for it. Whereas I could have requested a trade or tried to go win somewhere else, I stuck around. I was like, no, I'm going to do this, and never expected to be there again. So to do it unexpectedly that late in my career, it's like a. You do it unexpectedly early, and when you do it, then you're like, oh, that's great. I'm going to be here every year. You're not. But when you do it unexpectedly later in your career, there's just something special to it. If you can only watch one sport for the rest of your life, which one is it? It's basketball. What team do you want to see win a championship more than anything? Well, Seattle Storm. There's no other answer. Not. Not the Huskies. The Huskies. Uh. Oh, the Huskies have third plus second. You know, I wouldn't mind seeing the Knicks win. Wow. Okay, that's. That'll be number three. Curveball. Do you have a fun fact about yourself that your teammates would be surprised to hear about?

Oh, good question. Probably that I made a really poor decision in college and got my tongue pierced. Whoa. Yep. See, that's usually the reaction. Do you still wear it? No. No. Our college coaches, like, got word that some people got it done. I took that thing out immediately. Quickly. Yeah. Wow. I cannot imagine the look on Gino's face. Oh. Oh. I was like. I thought you were saying. With me having. I was like, yeah, I can't even imagine it either. Yeah, that's a given. That's a given. This has been really fun. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, thank you. I enjoyed it.

Entrepreneurship, Sports, Media, Business, Inspiration, Women In Business, Bloomberg Originals